Joe Rogan: The Truth About Aliens (He Finally Says It)

Oh my god, this is so sick.

>> They were very clearly trying to scare me and then play. We're just kidding.

Everything is like just messing around.

And it sounds insane that people could live for 30,000 years, but it doesn't.

Here's why it doesn't.

There's real evidence that there's structures under the pyramids that might go as deep as 2 km >> that look like an energy grid >> with columns and coils around the

columns and like >> what everybody who studies this says the cherry on top are the pyramids, but it's really this underground city that

they're studying. There's a 40 meter

they're studying. There's a 40 meter object that's in that labyrinth that's in some vast corridor that's metallic.

It's a UFO.

>> And now we have three-fingered mummies in Peru.

>> We might have actual evidence that there's another species that shares this planet with us. The same problem that we have with UAP disclosure is the same problem you have with the Epstein files.

Who do you think runs our government?

Nixon apparently had been saying, "I know who killed JFK and I know why they did it."

did it." >> And then you have people like Elon Musk on who are they run SpaceX. You would

think he would be completely privy to all of our UFO secrets.

>> He's a sly dog. So he's my homie, but he's a sly dog.

>> If he was debating like in a room with David Grush on your show, >> the CIA guy was like, "Look at the Grush stuff. Quantum and AI. Do you think

stuff. Quantum and AI. Do you think there's something happening where all these trends are converging now simultaneously and it's not a coincidence

>> when we achieve sensience with artificial general super intelligence that is the legitimate gateway to the cosmos. And if you really want to get

cosmos. And if you really want to get weird that might be how God gets formed.

Like God might be a real thing. That

might be how God gets formed. And that

might be the whole reason why human beings have curiosity and this insatiable desire for technological innovation.

Jesus was born out of a virgin mother.

>> What's more virgin than a computer?

This is beyond surreal. I've had some surreal moments on this show, but I think this tops them all. Um Joe, I really appreciate you being here, man.

Uh, I I don't think I would have a show if it weren't for the thousands of hours of insights I've ganed from your show.

And you don't have to do this and you do stuff like this all the time. And it

just means so much to me that you're here. So, I I really really appreciate

here. So, I I really really appreciate you.

>> Well, it's my pleasure. I I really love your show. So, it's exciting for me to

your show. So, it's exciting for me to be here.

>> Means a lot, man. Well, um I want to actually start with you had a dream. Uh

>> and this was a few weeks ago. You had

Brett Weinstein on great evolutionary biologist and you started off the episode with this trippy dream you had.

You want to describe it?

>> It was the weirdest dream I've ever had in my life cuz it was the most realistic dream and is the only dream that I can ever remember. I sleep really well. Like

ever remember. I sleep really well. Like

I'm one of those guys. I can go to sleep on a pile of rocks. I can always sleep.

It drives my wife crazy cuz she has a hard time sleeping and I could just con out. I could not go back to sleep. It's

out. I could not go back to sleep. It's

the only dream I can remember that I couldn't go back to sleep. I don't think I've ever had that happen to me before.

Well, I woke up at like 3:00 in the morning or whatever it was. And I was like, I'm I'm up now. Like, there's no way. I laid in bed, I think, for like an

way. I laid in bed, I think, for like an hour and then I just went to the gym. I

was like, there's no way I'm going back to sleep. It was very strange. It was

to sleep. It was very strange. It was

very strange cuz it it was like, what is this? It wasn't like a regular dream

this? It wasn't like a regular dream where like, oh, you're dreaming. It

seems like vague and weird and kind of um you know opaque.

It was vivid.

>> It was very strange.

>> And there was these very slender, tall humanlike things that were talking to me. They

weren't gray. They were kind of like pinkish like us. They were, you know, like Caucasian looking creatures.

But they were messing with me like they they scared me and they like we're just playing around and and so they were doing some there was some weird kind of communication

telling me to relax and um the environment was very different too. It was very vivid. It was

different too. It was very vivid. It was

like some sort of a corridor but it didn't seem normal. It seemed

>> very strange. Like I remember the walls were lit very weird. And I also remember that there was some sort of water and

reptilian element to this. Like they

were letting me know like almost like they had barriers that were very sloppy that were keeping these things out, but they were doing their best. They they

had people or beings like monitoring the and feeding these things and keeping them out. And I was like, what what is

them out. And I was like, what what is going on here? And it's like, is this telling me that they're doing their best

to keep something from getting to us, but that it's not that secure? That it's

kind of precarious and a lot more unstable than we would like to think it is.

>> I don't know what that was all about.

That was a That part of it was really weird.

That part of it was more dreamlike, but the communication with them and the interaction with them was very, very

vivid. It was really strange. They had

vivid. It was really strange. They had

larger eyes than a normal human and a larger head, but not crazy like not like a a gray from Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

>> Um, kind of a little bit like that guy up there.

>> Oh, interesting. Not not quite so big, but like a large head with a very small jaw >> and larger eyes than normal. But they

were smiling. God, I can't remember if they had teeth. I think they had teeth.

I can't remember.

>> Does any part of you think this actually happened or do you think it was just a dream? Wow.

dream? Wow.

>> You know, I don't want to be that guy that like, oh, I know it was real cuz I don't. I was dreaming. I was sleeping.

don't. I was dreaming. I was sleeping.

>> But it was the most vivid dream I've ever had in my life. I was telling you outside you're wearing this epic Betty and Barney Hill.

>> Oh jeez.

>> Oh jeez. First abductees 1961.

>> No, I know his granddaughter.

>> Yeah, she Angela Hill, right? She's UFC

fighter.

>> Yeah. So cool.

>> Crazy.

>> What does she say?

>> She did my podcast and didn't tell me until after the podcast was over.

>> You don't tell Joe Rogan grandfather was Barney Hill. I was like, "No, that's

Barney Hill. I was like, "No, that's mad. That's so crazy."

mad. That's so crazy."

>> Did you not say let's go back in record?

>> No, it was already too late. They

wrapped it up and everything.

>> I should have though. I should have.

>> You got to have her back.

>> Yeah, I should have. I should have done it then. Then

it then. Then >> that is wild.

>> Looking back, that was a mistake.

>> Well, I thought cuz you wore this, I think, on the Gavin Debecker episode, which is a crazy episode. Every

everybody should go watch this episode.

This guy protects like the most important people in the world. Yeah.

>> And he's going through all these crazy CIA conspiracies.

basically talks about Fouch's role in the AIDS epidemic as kind of analogous to what he did around CO a lot of the the you know the being kind of the same >> very same very similar

>> and you're hearing it from this guy who like protects incredibly important people does risk assessments for these you know massive events >> wild >> yeah very wild yeah but yeah he didn't know what this was

>> I thought you were maybe I thought you were maybe signaling to the audience like maybe I got abducted or something I I don't think I got abducted. Um, I

don't even know if I got contacted. It

just might have been the craziest dream.

And to me, because I'm so into the whole UAP, UFO alien phenomenon that maybe, you know, maybe it was just very vivid because of that.

>> It's just very odd for me to not be able to go back to sleep. That never happens.

>> I can sleep no matter what.

>> It's weird. Well, so whatever it was, it had kind of a disproportionate impact on your psyche. Like it was it was a big

your psyche. Like it was it was a big part of your subconscious.

>> It was it was tangible. It was it was like when I woke up, I was like, "What was that?"

It wasn't like a wa that dream was which I've had before. I had

last night. I had a crazy dream last night, but it was normal dream. It was

just I got up to pee and I was like, "What the hell was that?" I went right back to bed. this. I was not going to sleep, man. I laid in bed for a full

sleep, man. I laid in bed for a full hour just trying to go to sleep and then I said, "All right, I'm up. Let's just

go to the gym." And I'm in the gym and um trying to decide cuz I knew I had Brett Weinstein on the podcast and I was like, "I have to just say this immediately like because we're going to

get into so many different subjects.

There's no way I'm going to work this in." like I just have to get to this

in." like I just have to get to this right away because it I just had to sort of document it while it was only a few hours old while it was fresh.

>> And some dreams are like you wake up from them and you're like still in the dream a little bit. You have to like kind of get it. There's something

cathartic about retelling it or something.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It was weird, man. I don't

know what it was.

>> You said you thought they were beings from the future. Maybe

>> that's what if I had to guess like what they are, they seemed like what we will be, you know, like we are as time goes on,

uh, you know, if you look at ancient hominids versus modern humans, our heads are larger, our bodies are smaller, they're more slender, there's no need

for muscle, there's no need to physically move things. These these

things seem very slim. They seemed very slim and um God I I I want to say they had they weren't naked, right? But they

had like some sort of a suit on, but they were very genderless.

>> Like there was no defining that's a boy, that one's a girl. There was none of that, >> which feels like where humanity is kind of headed.

>> Yeah. Which I, you know, look, I like being a man and I like women. I think

they're fun. You know, I like I like the contrast. still like this. It's fun

contrast. still like this. It's fun

having a variety of different kinds of people, >> but it causes problems, right? Because

we have these procreation reproduction instincts. Uh we have

reproduction instincts. Uh we have primate instincts to be tribal, to uh acquire resources, to, you know, to

dominate and to to be untrustful of others. There's a lot of stuff that's it

others. There's a lot of stuff that's it makes being a human kind of cool because out of that you get art and you get incredible history and like amazing

architecture and all these things but >> it also there's it's a fork in the road like that is the kind of the bottleneck as a human being is our natural

biological reproduction.

>> Yes. Yes. And because it it it lends itself to all these things that you see like when bears fight over, you know, a breeding female or when, you know, when you hear see deers clash antlers

together, like what are they doing?

They're battling over who gets to breed.

>> Totally. I think that's a lot of what humans do. And we do it in weird ways.

humans do. And we do it in weird ways.

Like we acquire immense amounts of financial wealth or, you know, the fanciest watch and the fanciest car and you try to look like someone who someone would want to mate with. And that's

really all it is is like men and women want to be desired by the opposite sex or the same sex if that's what you're into. But it's that that procreation

into. But it's that that procreation thing is what fuels a lot of our and a lot of our inability to get along. A lot of conflict and a lot I

get along. A lot of conflict and a lot I mean a lot of acquiring resources through horrific and barbaric ways and dominating countries and invading.

That's what it's all about. But it's all it's a lot of it is just about breeding >> and it's it's it is that like limbic reptilian part of ourselves that does that. And so I wonder, not to like do a

that. And so I wonder, not to like do a full yungian analysis of this dream, but it's like they're holding these reptilians at at bay in the water or something and maybe there's something.

>> It seemed very symbolic what whatever it was cuz it was the only part of the dream that was kind of vague >> like they were kind of like crocodiles or something, but it was weird like they were feeding them, but they had like

flimsy barriers in front of these things to keep and they were like keeping them.

It was almost like letting me know like this is re you're really close to getting up and we are we're doing our best to stop this from happening.

But it was that's just me reading into it. But whatever whatever it was, they

it. But whatever whatever it was, they were very clearly trying to scare me and then play. We're just kidding.

then play. We're just kidding.

Everything is like just messing around.

There was a couple of those moments where I was like, "Okay, what are you trying to do? Are you trying to get me accustomed to interacting with you?

Yeah.

>> Like what is this? Because I was very weirded out.

>> And I think they they're whatever they were wearing cuz I think they were wearing something >> but they were like I said they were very genderless.

>> Whatever they were wearing was the same color as their skin. So it was strange.

>> You've been asked a lot about your childhood. Everybody knows you were four

childhood. Everybody knows you were four years in a row taekwond do champion.

That discipline brought you to where you are today in many ways. Everybody knows

you're UF UFO obsessed now.

>> Yeah.

>> Was there a moment in childhood where you kind of got alien pill or saw something or >> No, unfortunately I never saw anything.

>> I wish I kind of thought I did maybe when I was young, but I think it was probably a fighter jet. Um, when

the from the time I was little, I would look up at the stars and I would just think, well, clearly this can't be the only planet that has life on it. Like,

that doesn't even make any sense. And

then, you know, going to school and you learned out how many hundreds of billions of galaxies there are. You're

like, okay, and how many hundreds of billions of stars there are in those galaxy and how many planets there must be. Like, for sure there's something

be. Like, for sure there's something else out here. Like, would they be interested in us? Would they visit? And

you know then I got really into Project Blue Book and I read a lot of the stuff on Jay Allen Heinik and you know and all the Philip Corso stuff and the stuff

from Roswell and I just became obsessed with reading and watching whatever flimsy documentaries were available back then, you know. And then I think I really got back because I was always on

the fence like, "Oh, this is nonsense.

This is real. This is not it's not helping me. Let me just go about my

helping me. Let me just go about my life." And then really Jeremy Corbel's

life." And then really Jeremy Corbel's uh Roswell um excuse me um uh Area 51 Bob Lazar documentary is what really brought me back in.

>> Yeah. And that ended up being one of your most iconic episodes. I believe

it's like your second or third highest >> It might be the highest one on YouTube.

I think it has like 63 million views on YouTube.

>> That's so crazy.

>> That one's nuts. That That one's nuts.

Especially considering from that interview which was uh what was that 20 maybe 18 or something like that whatever it was more and more has come out that

substantiates what he said and confirms a lot of the stuff that he was talking about in the 1980s in in terms of the design of these crafts, how they manipulate gravity around them and how

they move through space with a very strange propulsion system. And that's

what we're hearing over and over again now from these whistleblowers and from these people like Hal Putoff and all these people that allegedly have

information about these back engineering programs that that this is what he's saying is very accurate. And it's almost like you broke the most gnarly story there was and a lot of these kind of

people who are now on the forefront of disclosure trying to play catchup in some ways because you have a guy who's claiming to have reverse engineered craft firsthand.

>> Yeah.

>> And now you have people you know saying you know we do have biologics we have you know you have David Grush giving 40 firsthand you know whistleblowers to the inspector general of the intelligence

community Thomas Mannheim. He says it's urgent, incredible. It's this crazy sort

urgent, incredible. It's this crazy sort of ground swell. But in many ways, we're playing catch-up to this guy who was like there at Area 51 in the 80s.

>> You know, they've tried to discredit him in many different ways. They tried to say, first of all, they tried to say that he never worked at Los Alamos, but that's been confirmed. And then they tried to say that he was never at Area

S4 or Area 51 site 4, but he was there and he knew it. He knew the layout. He

knew people that worked there. People

that did work there also confirmed that he worked there. Originally I told you uh you know when I worked there I was on the front page of the the paper so they were still able to archive you know

bring bring that back from the archives and you know Bob Lazar a physicist working here at Los Alamo so there was at least something there but uh somehow George came up with the the phone directory

>> and then George then Bob took George with cameras into Los Alamos.

>> Oh yeah. Yeah. So we flew out there and I said look come on in. I'll show you where I worked. We'll go in. We'll meet

people and George went with me.

>> Janet Airlines, which takes you back and forth between Vegas and Area 51. Area 51

wasn't even really in the public zeitgeist until he came out with it.

>> It actually wasn't even confirmed until the Obama administration cuz the Obama administration, they wanted to expand the barriers for entry or where people

were allowed to access the land because too many people were getting to nonsecure land and taking video. So they

were filming and taking photographs allegedly of these crafts and so they wanted to make it a little bit wider and so they had to confirm that it existed.

>> So wild. I think we're going to So there's a a buddy of mine's making a documentary with Bob Lazar. It's called

Project Gravitar >> and I think we're going to get a lot more confirmation and data points that corroborates his story or interview of him. I think we're going to find out

him. I think we're going to find out that S4 is very real, too. And that's

been denied up until today. Well, we do have satellite images of S4, do we?

>> I believe so.

>> I believe there's images of the land itself and you can >> underground, >> but yeah, but there's the outside of it where the hangers are.

>> I'm pretty sure you could actually get it online.

>> Okay, >> it might be I'm pretty sure there is an overhead like where you could see, oh, there's something there.

>> Okay. Well, so okay, if it's the same thing I'm thinking of, then he he has that data, but it's like stuff they tried to cover up on Google Earth.

>> Oh, really?

>> Yeah. It's like that Point Doom alien base that they erased or Yeah, that is weird.

>> Weird.

>> That's so weird because they blurred out the ground.

>> Yep.

>> In the water.

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>> How was that?

>> It was great. For people who don't know, Dan made this new documentary, The Age of Disclosure, which is excellent. It's

one of the very best documentaries on the whole UAP UFO phenomenon that I think I've ever seen. And there's no real footage in it. maybe a couple minutes of footage of like the go fast

or the gimbal, but really most of what it's about is highlevel intelligence operatives explaining what they know and what >> extremely high level people like Woolsey

and James Clapper like these guys who are like DNI level like overseeing all of the intel agencies Brennan you know all these people and

>> and Marco Rubio to his credit I think him his involvement was huge you you know, because it's the current administration, his involvement and his

urgency.

>> Schumer, Rubio, all those guys are like, "Look, a bunch of freaking highle >> Yeah.

>> officers came to us and either they're crazy or this shit's real."

>> Most of these people at some point or maybe even currently have held very high clearances and high positions within our government.

>> So, this is one of the things that Dan and I talked about. He firmly believes that both the United States and China has retrieved these crashed vehicles and

that they are also in this back engineering program. They're in a back

engineering program. They're in a back engineering program of their own and there is a race >> and he's he you know people talk about it like it's the Manhattan project on steroids but I've heard that about AI too right?

>> But which but might also be true and they might also be connected in some way. Um, I think what Rubio is concerned

way. Um, I think what Rubio is concerned with is that China develops this technology first. And the only way um

technology first. And the only way um that the United States is really going to catch up is if we open this up and we open it up and remove all the ridicule because forever look I I'm a silly

person so it's easy to make fun of me and I don't mind. I mean literally professional comedian so I I'll say stupid and not worry like oh people are going to think you're an idiot. I'm

like I'll tell you I'm an idiot. You

don't have to like look to see if I'm an idiot.

>> I think you're much smarter than you give yourself credit for.

>> Listen, I know really smart people. It's

relative. It's all relative.

>> You've got that like that general breadth of knowledge. Like not too many people are at your level, man. Like,

>> yeah, but it's it's also, you know what it's like? It's like people say like,

it's like? It's like people say like, "Oh man, you must be an amazing fighter." Like, listen, I work for the

fighter." Like, listen, I work for the UFC. I'm around dudes who can kill me

UFC. I'm around dudes who can kill me every single day I work there. Every one

of them could kill me. No questions

asked. Like, compared to a regular person. Yeah. But to an untrained

person. Yeah. But to an untrained person, that's how I look at intelligence. It's like, am I I'm not as

intelligence. It's like, am I I'm not as dumb as the dumbest people I know, but I know Elon's a friend of mine, you know what I mean? I mean, I'm friends with a lot of like very brilliant people.

There's levels to this thing, you know?

Like, I had Palmer Lucky on the podcast the other day. Yeah. You start talking to him, you go, "Oh, okay. Well, there's

levels to this, you know, and there's really smart people in this world, and I'm not one of them. But I

I'm smart enough to know what I know, and I'm smart enough to not be afraid of people thinking that I'm not smart. So

the the subject has always been like very ridiculed and dis and you could like really fumble your career if you went out and said if you were a

journalist or if you were like a legitimate author or like like look at Whitley Striber.

>> Yeah. I don't know what happened to that dude, but I know that everybody like sort of dismisses him as a kook in the real literature world because he's this guy who made these movies and books

about being abducted by aliens. Sh.

What? You know what I mean? So, you

immediately get this like smell of kook that's on you. And I think Marco Rubio talking about this and and and explaining like this is what I've been

told. This is what I know. This is a

told. This is what I know. This is a real thing. There are vehicles the size

real thing. There are vehicles the size of a football field that are moving through the ocean at 500 knots. We have

no idea where they're going. You know,

Tim Buret recently said that there's they've identified five areas in the oceans of the world where these things are coming out of on a regular basis.

>> We have a higher propensity of sightings around these five or six, I believe, deep area deep water areas. So you've

got these people talking about this and it's slowly but surely removing that layer of ridicule and that layer of ridicule ridicule is powerful man.

People don't like to be thought of as a fool you know and I think that holds us back and if the United States like if if first of all they're going to need some sort of an amnesty thing. This is one of

the things that we talked about. They're

going to need because for sure there was lying to Congress. For sure there's misappropriate misappropriation of funds and probably some corruption. Like when

you have no oversight, billions if not a trillion dollars, like for sure somebody got some money they shouldn't have got.

You're going to have to make all that okay. You're going to have to say in the

okay. You're going to have to say in the interest of national security and the future of the human race, all that.

You're going to have to do that. And if

they don't do that, we're going to have a real problem because these gatekeepers are going to continue to gatekeep because their lives depend on this. If

they if they release this, they could find themselves in jail without any amnesty, in jail for the rest of their lives. Like, we don't know how much

lives. Like, we don't know how much money was spent. We don't know how much lying to Congress there was. We have no idea how many felonies there were. We

don't have no idea. Let's assume that crash retrieval programs were real and that back engineering programs were successful. So you're not going to give

successful. So you're not going to give this stuff evenly to all these different defense contractors. So if you give one

defense contractors. So if you give one defense contractor one object and all a sudden they have this massive advantage and then the other defense contractor winds up going under as many of them have gone out of business. Well, now you

have a major lawsuit on your hands. You

know, you have all sorts of and then probably people are going to go to jail if if it's a just legal system.

>> 100%. Yeah. And for I think the cynics out there who might just want to put a minus sign against anybody coming from the intelligence world and saying things it this we're not even necessarily being

idealistic about their motivations.

We're just saying that it's probably national security runs the day and that this might be the Manhattan Project 2.0.

If you think about it, the first Manhattan project was payload potency.

It was bigger and bigger bombs. And

there's even a scene in Oppenheimer where he's criticizing Teller because he's like there is no target big enough for the the Hbomb's way too big. And so

beyond that, it's all about payload delivery. It's all about the ste, you

delivery. It's all about the ste, you know, ICBMs into stealth fighters into whatever the hell they're working with now. And if they do have this

now. And if they do have this technology, obviously they're going to open it up. And as much as I can be cynical and and anybody who's into UFOs is probably cynical about the intel

world, it kind of makes sense that they'd let this stuff out out now because they there is this arms race or whatever.

>> There there's a race going on with both.

Let's assume that that stories are correct and that back engineering is real. Let's assume that they have

real. Let's assume that they have recovered crafts. So there is a race

recovered crafts. So there is a race with that. But then maybe even more

with that. But then maybe even more critically and completely connected is the AI race because I feel like that is

the legitimate gateway to the cosmos. I

feel like when we achieve sensience with artificial general super intelligence, when it has the ability to make better versions of itself, when it has the

ability to devise new methods of power, new new ways of using resources that we never even imagined, just like we have now that they never imagined in the

1400s, you know, >> and I think it's going to happen very, very quickly. So, if there is a back

very quickly. So, if there is a back engineering program and there may maybe there's some hurdles that we just can't get over like I how did they do this?

Like how is it possible to do that?

Well, AI is probably going to figure out a possible way that it could be done and what possible inventions could be made to facilitate this possible thing and they'll probably just go go ahead and

start doing it. And when you have AI and then you have the incomprehensible power of quantum computing, which is so baffling and so baffling that you go,

"Wait a minute. What the did you just say?" One of the more recent ones,

just say?" One of the more recent ones, uh, I believe it's the Google one. They

solved an equation that would take the world's supercomputers.

I think it was 2.6 six billion years to solve and it's solved it in a matter of minutes.

>> It's so crazy. And then the willow chip they say the multiverse has to exist or whatever for >> it. What does that mean? The only way

>> it. What does that mean? The only way for it to solve this problem. Mark Andre

said it on my podcast. He said the equation is so difficult to solve that if you took every atom in the universe and converted it to a supercomput, the

universe would die of heat death before it would solve this equation. and it

solved it in minutes. So like what are we even talking about now? Now imagine

that being connected to artificial general super intelligence which is essentially a digital god. You're going

to make this thing that makes a better version of this thing. It's going to be exponential. It's going to happen very

exponential. It's going to happen very rapidly. Well, what's the end of that?

rapidly. Well, what's the end of that?

What's the end of that is all powerful, all knowing. And if you really want to

all knowing. And if you really want to get weird, that might be how God gets formed. I mean that that literally like

formed. I mean that that literally like God might be a real thing. That might be how God gets formed and that might be the whole reason why human beings have curiosity and this insatiable desire for

technological innovation. Not just to

technological innovation. Not just to stay alive, not just to make better stuff, but but this is why because that if you just follow it out to its natural course, that's going to lead to an

artificial life.

>> Yeah. I've heard you say that a lot before that like our consumptive patterns are almost built in to want more and more and more and then we have

to produce more and more in step and we're like creating this god outside of ourselves.

>> Like think about materialism. It's f

foolishness. You have a finite lifespan and you have people in their 80s like trying to acquire immense wealth when they already have immense wealth. Like

they like Warren Buffett's still in the game. You know what I mean? like he's

game. You know what I mean? like he's

worth billions of dollars. He's in his 80s and he's still out there trading and like >> what is that about? Why would you want more stuff? Why would you want more

more stuff? Why would you want more money and more stuff? Because nothing

fuels technological innovation like the market. And in order for the market to

market. And in order for the market to be successful, you have to be obsessed.

Like I have the iPhone 16 and this is starting to mess up on me because the 17's out. The battery is a lot slower. It's like it go it burns through the battery quicker. Sometimes

it glitches on me. I'm like, "Dude, you you didn't glitch for a whole year, bitch." It's like it's wired in that you

bitch." It's like it's wired in that you want the newest one, you want the latest one. And Apple's been accused of that.

one. And Apple's been accused of that.

>> Planned obsolescence.

>> Yeah. And they It is It's true. They've

admitted to it. And they've done it under the guise of, "Oh, well, you know, when the the older ones, the batteries decay, we're trying to preserve the battery." Like, shut up. Just let the

battery." Like, shut up. Just let the battery die, Don't monkey with my phone. But it's like this I I have an

phone. But it's like this I I have an iPhone 11 that I've had forever and I I keep it because a good friend of mine who died, he left me a voicemail and it's on that. Oh man.

>> Um and >> that phone works great. Like it's works the same. It works. I don't need a new

the same. It works. I don't need a new phone, but I'm going to get a new one every year because I'm a dumbass and we're all dumb asses and we're all buying the newest TVs and the newest

laptops and oh, the new ThinkPad came out with the touchscreen and you're going to keep doing that and and that if you just follow that, if everyone's doing that, what does that do? It makes

better stuff. If you looked at the human race as from an outside perspective, if you were a life form from somewhere else, you're like, "Okay, what are they doing? What is the predominant? What

doing? What is the predominant? What

does the dominant life force on this planet do? It makes better things.

planet do? It makes better things.

That's all it does. It's like a worker bee that doesn't know why it's making a hive. It's just making better things all

hive. It's just making better things all the time. Obsessed with making better

the time. Obsessed with making better things.

>> You should stop your need for accumulating objects and stop your need for, you know, a big car and a big house and find out something that you actually love to do and figure out a way to do it

for a living.

I I had a very smart guy named Matthew Pines on my podcast and he said he was speaking to some like CIA guy and the CIA guy was like you know it's a triangle

AI quantum and the grush stuff.

>> That was it. And we were you know in an environment where I couldn't I didn't want to press too much into the issue you know I didn't have it wasn't like this sort of sit down where it's like you could go for hours. Um, so that was

basically where it where it sort of landed. Um, and I've been chewing on

landed. Um, and I've been chewing on that for a while, you know, AI, quantum, and the grush stuff.

>> That's wild.

>> And do you think all of this is like and he was like, if if all of those three things seem to like converge, it's like this kind of consciousness apotheiois thing. Kind of what you're saying. Do

thing. Kind of what you're saying. Do

you think there's something happening where all these trends are converging now simultaneously and it's not a coincidence? Like we're UFO disclosure is happening at the time of

deep fakes. It's so weird, right?

deep fakes. It's so weird, right?

>> I think that's all on purpose.

>> Yeah. I think that's a part of the fun of the the experience that we're going through, you know, because it is a tangible experience. I believe life is

tangible experience. I believe life is real. I believe this table is real. I

real. I believe this table is real. I

believe in reality, but I don't think reality is as clearly defined as we like to believe it is. I think reality is dependent a

it is. I think reality is dependent a lot on consciousness and some sort of a strange in indescribable way to a conscious person.

I don't I don't I don't think it's I don't think it's very binary. I don't

think it's ones and zeros. I think it's slippery and I think it it it's dependent upon a lot of things. There's

a lot going on and um and it's also I always wonder like >> what is what is my what is my experience? What is my trip?

What is my journey through this world?

Like why why do I have all these weird things that have happened to me that have led me to be who I am today? Like

is that a design? Because if it's not a design, well, if you wanted to make someone like me, that's how you do it.

You do it exactly that way. But I want to pretend that, oh, this is all just, you know, it's like the ver it's like determinism versus free will. I think

both I think both are they're intertwined. I don't think it's that

intertwined. I don't think it's that clear. And I think

clear. And I think >> your experience is very different than my experience. And all of our

my experience. And all of our experiences are all tied in together.

And I really believe, as strange as it sounds, it's towards this one goal. And

I think this one goal is the advancement of the human species. And um

I think we all play a role just like microbes play a role in the environment and plants play a role in the environment and so does sunlight and so does wind. all these f but you parse

does wind. all these f but you parse them out and you look at them as individuals. You look like oh the wind

individuals. You look like oh the wind does this and it carries the clouds but it's all together like an equation that's driving things in a very specific way.

>> And I I I really believe that our trip that our experience is a very unique one. the people that are living right

one. the people that are living right now that are hearing this currently in the future they might look back at this and go, "Boy, they they were so wrong or they nailed it." You know, one

of those. But I think we are all

of those. But I think we are all purposely building towards something.

And I think that something is the it has the echoes of religious texts. I think

that the you know the origin story of the human race from various religions I think that is that is that these all

these stories where there's interactions with like the book of Enoch the watchers that came down and bred with men and

created the Nephilim. Like

>> doesn't that sound like genetic engineering? Like if bread with like had

engineering? Like if bread with like had sex with men. What? What do you mean?

Like what is that? So you mean take their genes and introduce them to ours?

Well, if you're a a dummy who lived 6,000 years ago and you're trying to recall a 5,000-y old story, that's probably how it presents itself. If

you've had 5,000 years of barbarism since the younger dest. So you have advanced civilizations, which is what I believe. I'm in the Randall Carlson

believe. I'm in the Randall Carlson Graham Hancock school. I don't think this is our first goound. I think

ancient Egypt is a great testament to that. I think there was some sort of an

that. I think there was some sort of an advanced civilization that was on a different pathway than we are. We're on

this electronic internal combustion engine pathway. They were on a different

engine pathway. They were on a different pathway, but I think they achieved the similar if not greater level of technology, the ability to manipulate

matter. for what they've just what

matter. for what they've just what they've done with the pyramids and like people try they do their best to come up with some explanations. They're all

dumb. Every every explanation sucks.

They suck and they hate it when you say that and they get angry and people are smart back then. Sure. But only these people only these people were like 6,000 years ago we we agree that people were

dumb and they didn't even have steel yet. Like what are we doing? and the the

yet. Like what are we doing? and the the the contrast the the stark contrast between between Zahi Hwas who you had on the former minister of culture in Egypt

and somebody like a Randall Carlson or Graham Hancock who are so articulate so smart and I think you know um >> you're constantly I think playing down

your intelligence but I think because you can deal with stigma because you can play with what other people consider misinformation the whole world now thinks that Charles Manson was an MK

Ultra patient because you knew Greg Fitz Simmons who knew Tom O'Neal which is crazy. So yeah, like I in some ways I

crazy. So yeah, like I in some ways I think you're leading academia. Like I

think the younger dice impact hypothesis which was I think presented in 2007 for the first time is now really starting to become more of an accepted thing. Before

that it was, you know, Luis Walter Alvarez saying that the dinosaurs, you know, due to a comet impact 66 million years ago.

>> That was a thing. Nobody took him seriously, right? And so in the in the

seriously, right? And so in the in the stark contrast between a gatekeeper like Zahu was which some people call your worst podcast of all time.

>> It was the worst.

>> It was the worst.

>> I discovered I discovered I discovered I discovered and I discovered major important things.

>> Are they online?

>> No. In my book.

>> Are there photos of this?

>> Of course. In my book. It's in my book.

It's in my book. If you go to my book, I don't go online. Why I have to go online? I go to my book. Can you come

online? I go to my book. Can you come and introduce me here in Eastern?

>> Excuse me. Can I introduce you in Houston? No, I cannot. Why?

Houston? No, I cannot. Why?

>> Because I'm very busy.

>> Okay.

>> I uh unfortunately I don't have any free time. Zi, it was the worst that we

time. Zi, it was the worst that we released.

>> There's been some that were bad that we didn't release.

>> Yeah.

>> Um but um I think >> I think we're all here for a reason.

>> And um I think I think we're here to experience something something very strange and profound that and there's an event there's an event that we're

building up to. And I think that's why there's this focus on disclosure. That's

why this documentary hit so hard.

>> That's why guys like Marco Rubio are sticking their neck out and Tulsi Gabbard and Rep. Luna and she came on my podcast too and she >> she was telling me some stuff that was just like mindblowing. And she was she

really got me to read the book of Enoch.

She's like you got to read that.

>> So you have the Ethiopian Orthodox text which has I think 88 books in the of the Bible um in total. But in the Ethiopian Orthodox text, it's basically kind of

like a a mainline OG version of the Bible. And then sometime in the 4th

Bible. And then sometime in the 4th century, there was actually a group that came together and they removed certain books. And

books. And the story goes uh that Revelations actually had replaced Enoch. And so it's interesting because when you're looking kind of full circle on, you know, you hear the stuff that some of these people

are talking about and then you see and you read the book of Enoch, which is a wild read, okay? And then you look at kind of what our modern day description is of what angels and entities are versus what Enoch was seeing and

reporting in his language and ability at that time. I just I think that there's a

that time. I just I think that there's a lot that brings you to then ask the question, well, why would they remove this information if it's truly, you know, written and and part of the oldest Bible in the world? Why would they then

take it out? And that could have easily been attached to the religious cannon, but um some rabbis disagreed with it because it didn't vibe with the Torah.

So like let's chuck that one out. But

it's in the same lump of Dead Sea Scrolls. They have the book of Isaiah,

Scrolls. They have the book of Isaiah, which is which is really fascinating because Wes Huff when he was on my podcast explained to me that the book of Isaiah that they found in the Dead Sea

Scrolls is verbatim the same as the book of Isaiah that was a thousand years more recent.

>> Whoa.

>> A thousand years. So this was this was the oldest version that they thought was the oldest version and then they found the Dead Sea Scrolls version which was a thousand years older verbatim.

>> Fascinating.

>> Fascinating.

>> And the Book of Enoch's in there.

>> There you go.

>> Like what are they talking about? What

are you talking about? The Watchers came down and they mated with humans and they created a race that was a giant race that destroyed everything and consumed

everything. That sounds like us.

everything. That sounds like us.

>> Doesn't that sound like us? If you're

some flimsy tiny alien thing with no musculature and a large head and you make giants, you you make football players. You make

marauding Vikings, you know, that are just showing up in boats and hacking everybody to pieces.

>> That's how you would describe them. Y

>> you would describe them giants destroyed everything.

>> Yes.

>> It's it's all very weird stuff, man. And

Enoch himself goes through this amazing personal transformation where he goes up to heaven, he walks with God, and then he turns into Medatron, this angel. And

a lot of people think that's part of kind of a celestial ascent tradition. So

you have celestial ascent traditions and various uh uh traditions and uh you know the the the wheels of Ezekiel or you know some people think in the book of

Acts Jesus does this or Paul has the thorn in the flesh where he sees God.

And so maybe there's some thing around ascending up into this state and coming back down. And there's there's a

back down. And there's there's a translation function where it's hard to say, you know, once you've ascended, it's hard to say what you've seen like like in the Murescu immortality key where like there's like a fight club

around it or something. This is the fight club of the ancient world.

Whatever happened there, no one talked about it under penalty of death. I mean,

people went to Elusus as human beings and from what little testimony survived, again, because it's secret, under penalty of death, they they walked away thinking they were immortal.

>> This all sounds really insane, I'm sure.

>> Yeah, but I mean, you would have to have a fight club around it because no one's going to understand, nor are they going to take you seriously ever again if you start talking about these things.

>> Yes.

>> That's where I have a great benefit in being a professional fool.

>> Like, you know what I mean? is I didn't get into podcasting as a professor. It's

not like I was teaching something somewhere. I got into it because I was a

somewhere. I got into it because I was a comedian. So most of the early podcast

comedian. So most of the early podcast it's literally just like this enormous gravity bong sitting on a table with

webcams and like half the episodes we were obliterated out of our minds. Had

no idea what we were talking about. It's

mostly just comedians and we're just making each other laugh and having fun because we have our whole day free, right? We have to work at night. We work

right? We have to work at night. We work

at night. During the day, we write jokes. We hang out. And then we, you

jokes. We hang out. And then we, you know, find other things to do. And one

of my favorite things to do used to be to do radio. Like when you would do a good radio show like Opie and Anthony back in New York, you'd hang around with a bunch of other comedians and it would be so much fun. And then we would do it

in the green room sometimes. We started

doing that first before we did the podcast. What we would do was uh I think

podcast. What we would do was uh I think it was called Justin TV at the time >> and so it was like a streaming platform.

So Brian, my uh producer would set up a lap Brian Redband would set up a laptop in the green room and we would just around in the green room cuz we were always making each other laugh and it was always like a fun environment. we're

getting silly before we're going on stage and so we started streaming that and then I said we should just do a thing where we just sit down and just have comics and just do it like a radio

show and just for fun and because I don't have to be taken seriously I can entertain any idea. Also another huge inspiration for me was Art Bell. Yeah.

>> You know I love Coast to Coast with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine. I love

that show. Uh because I used to go drive home from the comedy store one o'clock in the morning and he'd have some guy he had a time traveler line you can call.

So like Art Bell like let anybody say Art I'm a werewolf. Interesting. Tell me

more. Like he he didn't go get the out of here You're not a werewolf. He he let people say crazy

werewolf. He he let people say crazy things and he entertained all the kooky things and I loved that.

>> When you have a thirst for human blood is it like I mean what can you compare it to? Is it like when you want

it to? Is it like when you want chocolate ice cream or even worse?

>> Um, it's even worse than that.

>> So, I was like very willing to like Graham Hancock I think was the first real guest that I had.

>> Um, like other than comedian friends, it was me and my good friend Duncan Duncan Trussell and uh Graham and I had been corresponding I think through email. I

uh had talked about his book, but this was back when no one even knew what podcasting was. It was so ridiculed and

podcasting was. It was so ridiculed and it was just like little webcams and it was all like streaming on Ustream and uh that was my first real guest. But

>> you know I loved Fingerprints of the Gods and I wanted to you know I wanted to talk to the guy who made that book that like really made me reconsider what

had happened with the the human race and you know and how old our ancient civilizations might really be. They

might go way back further than we think.

>> Way back.

>> Way back.

>> Totally. A and he's a great example of somebody he'll incorporate stuff like Plato and myth into, you know, his study where it's like melt water pulse 1b 96,

you know, 100 BC. This was told at a mythos festival in in 600 BC in Tmus and Creta. When Solon was at that temple and

Creta. When Solon was at that temple and the priests told him the Atlantis story and how Atlantis was swallowed up by the sea in a single terrible day and night,

>> he asked them, "When did this happen?"

And they said, "9,000 years ago."

>> Now immediately that's a date we can convert into our calendar. 9,000 years

ago in 600 BC is a date we call 9,600 BC >> which give or take 20 years is 11,600 years ago. And just as the younger Dus

years ago. And just as the younger Dus began cataclysmically with a sea level rise 12,800 years ago, it also ended cataclysmically with an even more

massive sea level rise 11,600 years ago.

And that massive sea level rise has a name. You'll just call it meltwater

name. You'll just call it meltwater pulse 1b. M

pulse 1b. M >> it's well documented. Nobody disputes

that there was a meltwater pulse 1B and it raised sea levels massively literally overnight >> and you actually look back the historical record and we wouldn't even think that Troy the Pelpeneician war was

we would think that was mythical. It was

just Homer and Herodus but this guy Hinrich Schlimman decided to take that seriously and he found it in Anatolia in modern day Turkey.

>> Yes.

>> And so >> modern day Turkey is wild. It's weird,

right?

>> You look at ancient Turkey, like if if you look at like Balbach and Lebanon, you look at those areas like a lot of people think Turkey where Gobecley, they think that might have been the origin of

civilization that you know it wasn't Egypt like it predates even that. It

might have been there.

>> Well, they're creating sundials there.

Like it's how how weird is it that that part of the world that the Middle East is where you get all this Sumerian stuff >> which is just I mean I I watched a whole

documentary the other night on the Samrian kings list which is just like >> what is this because it's both accurate and mythical at the same time. So you

have people that are kings that live 40,000 years plus and you have eight kings that are documented and some of

them are real. Some of them are real and they're the the the time that they reigned corresponded with a real normal biological human life. But then you have

ones that were before the great flood that don't. They're really long and

that don't. They're really long and crazy and you just go, "Okay, what was going on?"

going on?" >> Yeah. And it sounds insane that people

>> Yeah. And it sounds insane that people could live for 30,000 years, but it doesn't. Here's why it doesn't. What we

doesn't. Here's why it doesn't. What we

can do now, just a rudimentary stuff that we can do now, prolongs physical health far beyond where it ever was before. And then when you're talking

before. And then when you're talking about stuff like hyperbaric chamber therapy, there was a a study out of Jerusalem, I believe it was, where they

did a protocol where they put people on uh hyperbaric treatment. There was 90 days. They had to do 60 sessions in 90

days. They had to do 60 sessions in 90 days. At the end of those 60 sessions,

days. At the end of those 60 sessions, they measure their telomeres. Their

telomeres, which is a a direct sign of cellular aging. The shorter your

cellular aging. The shorter your telomeirs are, the closer you are to death. Their telomeres had lengthened.

death. Their telomeres had lengthened.

That was No way.

>> Yes. That was commensurate with a 20 year difference in their age.

>> What?

>> Yes.

>> Lengthened. I didn't know you could lengthen telmirs.

>> I've done it. I've done that therapy. I

did that exact therapy. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I I've done it a couple times. But

I did it at the I was like, "Okay, let me give this a chance." And I went to this hyperbaric place and I It was so boring. They just there for 90 minutes.

boring. They just there for 90 minutes.

Go get me out of there. Thankfully, you

can use your phone, but that fully sketches me out because like if there's a spark that goes off that you blow, people have died in those things.

Yeah. Yeah. A child died in one fairly recently because of static from the blanket ignited the oxygen.

>> Oh god.

>> It's very scary stuff because you're in a a super high oxygenated high pressure environment that's equal to what I do is two altitudes. So, two US two uh um

two altitudes. So, two US two uh um Earth altitudes and you do it for 90 minutes. So, we know about that. We also

minutes. So, we know about that. We also

know about NMN um and a lot of the work that uh David Sinclair has been doing out of Harvard. We know that they've been able to take mice and make mice behave like younger mice by switching

their blood to the blood of younger mice.

>> We're real close to being able to do weird right now. And there's a lot of people that believe that if you can make it to 90 right now, you're going to be able to make it to like 300 years old. So, if that's the case, let's

old. So, if that's the case, let's imagine that a society, let's be open-minded, and a society as sophisticated as the people that lived

in Africa that were able to move stones that weighed 80, 90 tons, 500 miles through the mountains with no roads,

perfectly aligned them to true, north, south, east, and west. 2,300,000

stones in one pyramid alone. And now

there's real evidence that there's structures under the pyramids that might go as deep as 2 km >> that look like an energy grid >> with columns and coils around the

columns and like what? So if they were capable of doing that, imagine what their health technology was. Maybe they

had cracked all the things that we cracked plus >> a thousand years.

>> You know, I just interviewed the guy that did the synthetic aperture radar scans. The Italian guys? Yeah, the

scans. The Italian guys? Yeah, the

Italian guys. This I went to Italy actually.

>> Oh, Filipo Beyondi.

>> There are these structures, tubes, huge tubes that are the stranding underneath and we have noticed it that

these tubes has a sort of spiral nature.

>> We have measured uh approximately over 1 kilometer of depth.

>> Over a kilometer.

>> Over that. Yeah.

>> Wow. And I I came in not knowing, you know, how serious or rigorous he was.

And I came out being like, "This guy does he does, I'm pretty sure, work with," he couldn't really talk about it, but work with the Italian military. And

so this thing, synthetic aperture radar, Doppler tomography is used in commercial use cases where money is on the line.

It's used to map magma chambers inside volcanoes. And I think it's used in some

volcanoes. And I think it's used in some like spooky military use cases where people's lives are on the line.

>> Yeah. They want to find where the bunkers are.

>> Yeah, >> 100% >> 100%.

>> And so you can chat GPT this stuff, but because there's not a ton of data on the instrumentation and it'll give you spit out all sorts of wrong answers. But I

felt like I went pretty deep with this guy. And there is 100% something

guy. And there is 100% something underneath the pyramids in that shape, the coils, the columns. He doesn't know what the material is. He's very honest about that. He doesn't know what the

about that. He doesn't know what the function is. Is it the Christopher Dunn

function is. Is it the Christopher Dunn hydrogen power plant thing? He doesn't

know. But there is something underneath there and it's it's eight columns and they're coiling and he says he goes a kilometer deep.

>> He says tens of meters is is where they're high confidence but he says a col a thousand meters >> just the columns.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just the columns.

Yeah. Is it's insane. It's so wide.

>> It's wild. And there's something underneath them.

>> There's something is that Oh, foundation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

foundation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So at the bottom we probably have huge chambers uh for approximately 80 m of width and also of height. 80 m.

>> Wow.

>> On the bottom.

>> On the bottom.

>> Yes.

>> And and so what is that? That's like the kind of foundation structure on which the tubes >> probably because we are uh observing

that the tubes are connected to the respective top of this structure. They

are connected and goes inside.

>> Wow.

>> Also, >> what? It's so crazy.

>> what? It's so crazy.

>> How did you do that?

>> Yeah. Through a water table.

>> That's my point. If longevity science is real today.

>> Yeah.

>> And we get to a point where you can live for a thousand years. Here's the problem with education. You have to retach all

with education. You have to retach all these new kids.

>> Every year you have to teach new people new things, right? If you have people that are thousands of years old, imagine and no deterioration mentally. Imagine

how much you can discover. Imagine how

much you can apply if there's no diminishing of your faculties. You hit

5, 600 years old and you're still fully engulfed in whatever discipline you're doing.

>> You know, can you imagine if you you gave these guys that are working on, you know, quantum entanglement, give them thousands of years to work on that. Give

them unlimited funds. Give them the mental clarity of a young person a thousand years old. That's probably how you get the pyramids. That's probably

how you get all sorts of wild that we still can't figure out today.

>> Probably. And if you look at Hindu cultures, they they have the Yuga periods. We're now in the Kaliuga where

periods. We're now in the Kaliuga where the lifespan is the shortest. Yes.

>> And people live for thousands of years.

And even in the Bible, you had Methusela or whatever, you know, these >> No was like 600 years old when the ark came around.

>> There you go.

>> Yeah. And everybody's like, "What does that mean?" I don't know. Why are we so

that mean?" I don't know. Why are we so convinced that this is the only way?

That the only way is you live to be 100, then you die. Like, says who?

>> Well, science is now, as you're saying, proving that wrong. But also, I think it's this bias that like myth is myth and it's not history. But like, if you the Egyptians had the Zepte when the gods walked among us.

>> Yes.

>> If you look at myths, you know, it's like the the flood myth. It's in 400 disperate cultures. If you have all of

disperate cultures. If you have all of these myths of like greater beings, nephilim, fallen angels, that sort of thing, you have to start taking that seriously at some point as history and not just myth,

>> right? And it's not a coincidence that

>> right? And it's not a coincidence that these cultures that all have this flood myth all align with the younger Jus impact theory timeline.

>> It's like it's the same timeline as the ending of Atlantis. It's the same timeline like and this is not it's not a theory and that's just like it's pontificated. They've sat around. I

pontificated. They've sat around. I

wonder if that could have happened. No,

they've got core samples that show a large amount of aridium. They know that aridium is rare on Earth but very common in space. They know that there's a comet

in space. They know that there's a comet storm that comes by. I think it's every November and every June torid.

>> Yeah. They know we pass through this meteor shower.

meteor shower.

>> They know it. They know that it caused Tonguska.

>> Exactly. Yes, they know it. So, the idea that that happened in a horrible way, you know, 11,000 plus years ago, it's it's not outrageous at all.

>> No. And then maybe that dubtales with disclosure cuz you you just had hell put up on, which is an amazing episode. He's

written a paper on ultraterrestrials.

So, beings that could have died off in a cataclysm. Maybe there were some remnant

cataclysm. Maybe there were some remnant survivors. Maybe those survivors have

survivors. Maybe those survivors have underwater bases, bases on the moon.

They have advanced technology left over from that Atlantean period. Atlanteanss

were, you know, notoriously waterfearing people. And maybe that's what we're

people. And maybe that's what we're seeing.

>> Like a breakoff civilization, a break.

They they figured out a way to survive.

And maybe they were, you know, like you always hear this about like Zuckerberg's building a bunker. Like the elites, the elites all have a bunker somewhere. You

know, maybe that was the version of the elites have a bunker. You know, maybe it was the most advanced people or beings.

>> That's the other thing. It's like what what are we, you know? What are we?

>> I have dogs, you know, and uh I have two adorable dogs. I have a golden retriever

adorable dogs. I have a golden retriever and I have a it's he's called a King Charles Spaniel. He's the cutest

Charles Spaniel. He's the cutest thing you've ever seen in your life.

It's like that used to be a wolf.

>> Charlie.

>> Yeah, Charlie. His name's Charlie. He

used to be a wolf, right? Like if you track back his lineage and you find out what you know his ancient ancestor was a wolf which is so ridiculous. All he does

is kiss you and makes these little barks and he's adorable, right? Um but

they're very different looking but yet they could breed if they were male and female. It's like we're weird. We're the

female. It's like we're weird. We're the

only thing that's like dogs and we know dogs exist because we did some stuff with wolves. We only wanted the

with wolves. We only wanted the ass wolves. We only wanted the wolves

ass wolves. We only wanted the wolves with the floppy ears that were willing to take the meat and hey, bark if you see something. I'm going to sleep. I'm

see something. I'm going to sleep. I'm

your friend. And that's how we worked out this relationship with wolves that eventually became dogs and then we bred them to become dogs.

>> I think we're genetically engineered.

I'm I don't believe that it's a very simple um evolutionary timeline between ancient hominids and human beings. I

don't buy it. It's it happens too quick.

It's too weird.

>> Yeah. You have all these weird You have the homohabilis to homo sapiens, the doubling of cranial size, which you know you talk about a lot. And then you also >> McKenna had a great take on that. He

thought he thought it was from psilocybin mushrooms. >> Yeah.

>> That's the stoned ape theory. But he he is accurate in one thing and that is that the human brain doubled over a period of like a couple million years which is unprecedented in the fossil

record. It doesn't even make sense.

record. It doesn't even make sense.

>> It does. And his point was really great.

said, "Imagine the organ that's responsible for the fossil record in the first place is what doubles over a period of 2 million years." Like this kind of like it's not just a liver on a

monkey, you know, it's the brain of the most intelligent species on the planet.

>> You can't explain that with pure natural selection. It seems you would need some

selection. It seems you would need some sort of outside intervention or >> something would have to happen to warrant that kind of change. And uh you know, maybe it was just the battle for

survival. Maybe it's just ingenuity and

survival. Maybe it's just ingenuity and innovation and that natural selection favored the the beings that had larger brains because they could think through things quicker and devised better

because we're barbaric and we were really really barbaric then. I'm sure

you've seen Chimp Empire. Seen that

incredible on Netflix. I can't recommend it enough. But you realize how like

it enough. But you realize how like warlike and horrific chimp culture is and that they just run around up these other tribes of chimps and killing chimps. And if a a rival chimp crosses a

chimps. And if a a rival chimp crosses a boundary, they all kill it. It's that's

us. Yeah,

>> that's us, right? Well, if you wanted to get out of that hump, you would probably have to devise the best weapons, the best structure that could be some sort of a protectant shield from these other

primates. And that would make sense, you

primates. And that would make sense, you know, because we do know that chimps and and uh even orangutans like you've seen the orangutang spear fishing. You've

seen that image?

>> I don't know if I have.

>> Never seen it.

>> Orangutang spearfish. spear fishing like a human.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Here, I'll pull I'll pull it up cuz it's so crazy. Look.

>> Oh my god. That's

>> Yeah, it's real. Yeah, it's real. Look.

>> What?

>> Yeah. So, what happened was apparently the orangans saw humans doing it and so they imitated it.

>> So graceful and artful.

>> So strong. He's just hanging on to this tree limb and then just reaching down stabbing fish as they go by.

>> God.

>> Yeah. Well, maybe that's like because I think you bring this up in the context also of Aliens visa v us with Chimp Empire where it's like maybe there's some sort of prime directive where

they're waiting for us to get less violent. They're keeping an eye on us.

violent. They're keeping an eye on us.

They're showing up at nuclear sites which they do at all of our nuclear sites, >> but they're kind of waiting till we're until we evolve a little bit or something.

>> I think they're waiting for AI. That's

what I think. really.

>> Yeah. I think that's the whole the whole reason why they haven't contacted us.

The whole reason why there's no like very obvious signal to the entire population of Earth that this is a real phenomenon. I think they're waiting for

phenomenon. I think they're waiting for AI cuz I don't think we're going to get less violent. I think that ship

less violent. I think that ship has sailed. There's slap fights now on

has sailed. There's slap fights now on TV. People slap

TV. People slap away.

>> Yeah, I know.

>> It's not my thing. But I mean I can't talk I mean I've been commentating for the UFC since 1997. I've been working for them. So, it's like, look, I get it.

for them. So, it's like, look, I get it.

We're violent. We're violent. I go bow hunting all the time. We're violent.

We're a violent being, and we're not going to not be violent. It's I think that ship has sailed. It would be nice if we could evolve past that. And I

think we can certainly as individuals, you know, I I definitely think that's the case. But collectively in large

the case. But collectively in large groups, I think we're just violent. And

uh and until we can read each other's minds, I think that's going to stick.

But I think that's going to be one of the next hurdles. Um, one of one of the big technological breakthroughs that's going to happen that's going to change the way human beings interact with each

other is what I anticipate would be uh the development of a universal language >> and um some sort of uh technologically assisted telepathy.

>> So it'll probably be I'm sure you've seen that Google test where they put on the headsets and they ask each other questions and answer the questions without words. You've seen that?

without words. You've seen that?

>> No, never seen that.

>> That's amazing. Oh my goodness.

>> Oh my god.

>> Oh my goodness. They can already do this.

>> Where do you want to get lunch after this?

>> Typhoon could be good.

>> You think things. It transmits your thoughts to that person in words that they hear and then they think things and transmit it to you in words that you hear. These guys are laughing. They

hear. These guys are laughing. They

can't believe it's happening. They're

not even talking. They're just laughing.

>> I know Neuralink has a patent on telepathy or something. It's coming,

man. It's coming 100%. And so what's our big hurdle? The Tower of Babel.

big hurdle? The Tower of Babel.

>> What's the big hurdle? We We can't communicate with each other. This How

many languages are there? I mean,

>> so many.

>> We don't even know how many Aboriginal languages there are in Australia.

Totally.

>> Do you know that they like they have these mobs and these mobs might live live 10 kilometers away from another they call it that's like tribe. They

call themselves mobs. The Aboriginal

people. They they might live 10 kilometers away from another mob with a totally different language they don't understand.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. And they don't have it's not written. Wow. And so some of these

written. Wow. And so some of these people die. They die off. There's a lot

people die. They die off. There's a lot of genocide. A lot of pe a lot of them

of genocide. A lot of pe a lot of them were killed. Like some horrific history

were killed. Like some horrific history to ancient Australia. My good friend Adam Greenree. And by the way,

Adam Greenree. And by the way, Australia, a lot of freaky cave art. A

lot of freaky UFO looking art. Like

weird stuff that thousands of years old.

You're like, "What were you guys drawing?" I'm like, "What is that?" Um,

drawing?" I'm like, "What is that?" Um,

my friend Adam Greenree visited a site where um they had given food to this entire tribe of Australian aborigis that were tainted that was all poisoned and

the the entire cave, he said, is just littered with human bones. He said it's the saddest, most like dark and depressing single environment he's ever been in. And he was in this cave going,

been in. And he was in this cave going, "What the man? They just poisoned this entire tribe. just gave them all food with poison just to get rid of them.

>> Oh, it's so horrible.

>> Yeah. So, and so just think of all the languages.

>> There there's too many languages.

There's so many. You can't learn them all.

>> Well, now your phone can translate. My

the newest iPhone update. If you have the the AirPods, the AirPods can translate languages in real time.

>> I'd know that. Yeah, it's so crazy, >> right? So, but what's the hurdle? The

>> right? So, but what's the hurdle? The

hurdle is we have to translate all these languages. Why don't we learn a new one?

languages. Why don't we learn a new one?

Why don't we learn a new one that everybody accepts?

>> If we're doing things, it's like I know jiu-jitsu in the Matrix. Remember when

he gets install?

>> You'll install some new universal language. We'll be able to communicate

language. We'll be able to communicate with each other everywhere. And then

>> all of our beefs over resources and ideologies and religions and national borders. All that's going to go

national borders. All that's going to go away. M it's going to because I think

away. M it's going to because I think we're much more homog not homogenized we're much more cohesive as a world than we've ever been before. Maybe we're

divided on many issues like we always have been but there's communication with people all over the world that's unprecedented. Yes. There's never been a

unprecedented. Yes. There's never been a time where you can watch a podcast from Israel or watch a a guy talking in Colombia about the problems they're having there and you're watching people

communicating and then you're seeing people post things on X and all you have to do is hit that button and it translates it. And so you're reading

translates it. And so you're reading about this guy like what his experiences in Russia and you're like it's a different world man but >> it's not yet there. This is like early

internet, you know, and I think >> ultimately what's going to propel us is some sort of a way where we can unite.

And one of the best ways we can unite is to understand each other. At the end of the day, we're all just human beings. We

all want the same things. We want our loved ones to be safe. We want to be able to pursue whatever fascinates us that we love. We want to live in a nice community. We want to have friends. We

community. We want to have friends. We

want to be loved. That's what everybody wants. That's what everybody wants. And

wants. That's what everybody wants. And

if we can understand that we're being played by people where these this role has always existed, the king, you know, the general, the corrupt military person

who just wants to go to war. It's always

existed. Eisenhower warned us about this when he left office, right? That has

always existed. But we can't know what your real intentions are if we can't read your mind. The moment we could read your mind, you're like,

>> "This is Yeah.

>> It'll be a groundbreaking complete transformation of the entire way we interact with each other.

>> All of each other.

>> Well, I feel like there are various possible instantiations of what you're talking about. Like there's the kind of

talking about. Like there's the kind of almost like mark of the beast style people have implants. Bio athoritarian

version.

>> That's the UK version.

>> That's the UK version. Exactly. Exactly.

>> Or Australian version or whatever.

>> Yeah. Um, and then there's the version like I almost wonder you were getting me thinking like are psychedelics alien technology to get us to naturally cuz you have like things like the

telepathy tapes. You interviewed Kai

telepathy tapes. You interviewed Kai Dickens. Yeah.

Dickens. Yeah.

>> And there's a great book by Arthur C.

Clark called Childhood's End. And in

that book, the aliens first communicate with these autistic children, non-verbal children. Mh.

children. Mh.

>> And I wonder if this sort of there's some sort of like almost psychedelic network that is analogous to this more like you know um silicon chip circuitry

based you know communication thing and those two things are somewhat different actually and that a lot of the progress we've seen in humanity a lot of the stone tape theory is based on

psychedelic updates or you know Brian Morescu talking about the immortality key you know like you could argue a lot of modern civiliz ization comes from the foundations of these visionary, you

know, Plato, Aristotle having these visions on psychedelics.

>> Yes.

>> And so maybe those two things are actually in opposition. The kind of like mark of the beast bioeththoritarian thing and the like the actual like parasychological

thing or whatever. I think you're dead on. Yeah. I I think I I wouldn't say

on. Yeah. I I think I I wouldn't say it's like alien technology that that psilocybin and DMT are alien technology, but I think they have a function just

like electrolytes have a function, you know, just like nutrients have a function like vitamin C is important for your health.

You know, vitamin D is important.

There's a lot of things that have a function um that we just sort of accept.

We don't accept that psychedelics might have a very beneficial and maybe even essential function in human society. And

we've removed that because of people that have a philosophy that's diametrically opposed to the philosophy that one gets after a psychedelic experience. After a psychedelic

experience. After a psychedelic experience, your your feeling is of ego death and of unity and of community and you're like, "God, you just want to love everyone and hug everyone." That is the

exact opposite of someone who wants to ban psychedelics and put put people in jail for having them and to say there's no benefit, no medicinal purp.

Meanwhile, they had no experience in it whatsoever. They're talking completely

whatsoever. They're talking completely ignorantly based entirely on fraudulent data about what it you know it's going to ruin your brain and give you brain damage. Like I had a conversation with

damage. Like I had a conversation with Moaku one day uh on the opening Anthony show who I love. I I think he's great.

But I was like, "You ever do mushrooms, man?" And I was like, we're just

man?" And I was like, we're just around and he was like, I my brain is very important to me. I don't want to I don't want to give myself brain damage.

Like I'm like, that's not what's going to happen, man. It's not what's going to happen. And I I think for me at least,

happen. And I I think for me at least, those experience have been essential in grounding me and and letting me reassess

and re-evaluate how I've sort of categorized the world and my life and and everything. M I think they're

and everything. M I think they're they're expand they expand something about your consciousness that you can't weigh. You can't put it on a scale and

weigh. You can't put it on a scale and you you can't put a tape measure to it.

So you you don't think that it's tangible. But I think if there was a way

tangible. But I think if there was a way to measure it, you could. You know, like if you get in um a hyperbaric chamber with an aura ring, um the aura ring the next day will tell you that you have

significantly higher recovery than normal.

>> And you don't feel it though. You know

what I'm saying? Like if I there's no way of quantifying it, but if you had an aura ring that could quantify your consciousness after a psychedelic

experience 100% it would show massive improvements in love, in community and in diminishing of

ego, uh the the appreciation of nature, >> you know, just like like wanting to be nice to people and hug people. You tell

your friends you love them. that that

all comes out of psychedelics like no question. And what's opposed to that?

question. And what's opposed to that?

Well, what's opposed to that is authoritarianism. What's opposed to that

authoritarianism. What's opposed to that is locking people up and putting people in cages for doing this thing that really the people that are locking you in cages should be doing. M the only way

we're going to get past that is those people have to die off and young new people have to kind of take their place

>> because these officials that are you know the ones that are pushing these certain narratives, these antiquated ideas particularly about psychedelics,

they're almost all old people who are uninformed >> and none of them are psychedelic explorers. None of them are people like,

explorers. None of them are people like, "Look, I've done Iawaska five times. Let

me tell you something. This should

be illegal. We need to get back everybody to go to church and you need to start drinking water." You know, it's um we

we have generational problems. In 1970, they passed the sweeping psychedelics act during the Nixon administration that was specifically done to target the

anti-war movement and the civil rights movement. They made all these drugs

movement. They made all these drugs illegal so that they could go in and arrest all these people and just put a stop to all this peace, love, and happiness foolishness. And they were

happiness foolishness. And they were really successful at it. And we grew up with that. We grew up with in the 1980s,

with that. We grew up with in the 1980s, uh, there was the Nancy Reagan don't say no commercial or just say no commercials.

>> There, >> that was my take on it. Don't say no.

>> Don't say no.

>> It was just Say no. It was all just say no. Like every this is your brain on

no. Like every this is your brain on drugs and a guy with frying pan. You're

like, "What are you? It was the dumbest propaganda. But it worked. It worked to

propaganda. But it worked. It worked to a certain extent.

>> Meanwhile, she was seeing an astrologologist.

>> Yes. And she's probably on pills. She's

probably on all kinds of prescription pills. The doctor gave it to me. It's

pills. The doctor gave it to me. It's

not a drug, you know? Like it's kooky.

That's the other thing. Most of these people are on aderall. Most of these people telling you to not do psychedelics. like a a large amount of

psychedelics. like a a large amount of highprofile like high productivity people are doing aderall which is essentially amphetamines >> or they're on SSRI or some other

that >> they're on anti-anxiety medication whatever the they need to get them through the day but um I think it's a

it's it's you could call it a technology but uh it is an an essential element in the human life >> to and not I don't think it's essential for everybody. I want to be real real

for everybody. I want to be real real clear on that. I think for people that have very shaky psychological foundations, there's people that are have mental illness, there's people that are, you know, they're taking medication

just so they could function, yeah, this is not for you, you know, unfortunately.

But for other people, I think if we had a legal system where you could go to a person who's a licensed clinician who

could prescribe you in a very safe environment, prescribe you psilocybin and and talk you through the experiment experience rather and explain to you how

to relax and that you can't fight this.

Like this is what a bad trip is is you try to fight it and you're not going to win. you're just going to get smothered

win. you're just going to get smothered by like whatever it is that's haunting your brain. Just let it ride over you.

your brain. Just let it ride over you.

Just say just let go. Just let go.

>> And some people maybe can't do that psychologically. Maybe a small dose is

psychologically. Maybe a small dose is good for them. Just a little touch of it just to get a feel for it so you're not you're not feeling like you're going crazy. But I think we could have we

crazy. But I think we could have we could know a lot more about humans and what's possible in terms of the way we interact with each other. the kindest

people that I know like like to a person have all done them.

>> I think there's something to that. And I

think that >> the prohibition of that does no one any good. Like I I always put it this way

good. Like I I always put it this way like if it's just the three of us in this room and uh you just decided uh hey man, no one can drink alcohol anymore and if you do I'm going to lock you in a

cage. Me and that other dude be like man

cage. Me and that other dude be like man you. Like why are you telling me

you. Like why are you telling me what to do? If I drink what do you give a Because crimes already exist. If

I drink and then I break into your house and beat you up, well, that is a crime.

So, you go to jail for that. Why am I going to jail for just drinking? Maybe I

can handle it. Maybe you can't handle it. Maybe I can have a couple of drinks

it. Maybe I can have a couple of drinks and watch the game and I'm I'm in a good mood. And it enhanced my life,

mood. And it enhanced my life, you know? Like, who are you to tell me?

you know? Like, who are you to tell me?

And that's the the same argument with psychedelics. And all it does is it

psychedelics. And all it does is it props up organized crime. What's

fascinating about psychedelics is that there's not really a big commercial market where it props up organized crime.

>> Ubiquitous use, right? But where's the mushroom cartel? You know, they don't

mushroom cartel? You know, they don't exist.

>> Which is strange. It is strange >> cuz it's because it's a beautiful loving thing >> and often you don't need to get hooked on it. You take it once and it really

on it. You take it once and it really profoundly helps you. Like Ebogga, which was, you know, just allowed for veterans in Texas. Thank God. often again due to

in Texas. Thank God. often again due to your you know your advocacy >> and Rick Rick Perry Governor Rick Perry who was who was >> former governor Republican who was very

staunch anti-drug critic for his whole life and now he's had experiences and having talked to all these veterans who come back and there is no help for them man I mean these guys come back they see

horrific they see their friends blown up and then you ask them to just go to work and they're they're broken some of them And the one of the best

ways for them to reintegrate to society seems to be Ibagane. And I have personally talked to many of my friends who served overseas who had again horrific experiences. It came back all

horrific experiences. It came back all up. It was one of the only things

up. It was one of the only things that saved them.

>> Sean Ryan talks about it.

>> You know, there's a lot of these guys.

It's like >> it's the only thing that helped them.

And then it made them feel like a normal person again. It made them feel like a

person again. It made them feel like a human again.

This is the story of DMT or dimethylryptamine.

A simple compound found throughout nature which has profound effects on human consciousness.

>> What was your first DMT trip? Like

>> I thought it was dead for sure. I

thought like, well, I up. This

just this just killed me. Like this

there's no way this is real. The first

one was 5 MO which uh might be stronger than NN dimethylryptotamine supposedly.

It made you feel like you were broken down to subatomic particles and you integrated with the universe. That's

what it made it feel like >> like completely integrated. I didn't

exist anymore. Language didn't exist.

History didn't exist. All of it was pointless and foolish. I was a a part of the entire universe and I was conscious that I was a part of the entire

universe. It was like I didn't exist but

universe. It was like I didn't exist but I was I existed in the universe. The

universe existed but all as one. It

wasn't separated by individuals and animals and fish. It was all one thing.

It was like the source. It was very profound, very strange. No visuals. It's

just like almost like um a very a fine geometric pattern through blinding white light. Like the experience is like

light. Like the experience is like blinding white light that seems to have some sort of a pattern to it. And again

like complete dissolving of ego, complete dissolving of history and think I had no knowledge of my didn't think of my language. I was thinking outside of

my language. I was thinking outside of language. I was thinking out completely

language. I was thinking out completely outside of being a human, outside of it was just pure thought. And it wasn't my thought. It was all thought. It was all

thought. It was all thought. It was all one big crazy burst. And it lasts like 15 minutes. And then I come down and I'm

15 minutes. And then I come down and I'm trying to talk about it. But as I'm trying to talk about it, I'm realizing that some of the way that I talk, I talk in a way that sounds smart on purpose, you know, because I'm like like I'm

trying to make it impressive, >> you know? And then I'm but I'm recognizing that while I'm saying it, you know, because I'm like, "Oh, this is how you that's gross." I'm recognizing like that that's gross. And when you talk to people and they're trying to

sound smarter than they have to be, you know, like, but I'm realizing like I'm trying to put this into words cuz I know that I'm going to tell it. And that's

what I realized. Like, okay, the reason why I'm doing this is I'm trying to formulate right now while it's still fresh in my mind what how to describe this in a way that's going to be

entertaining to people because it it's fleeting. You know, memories are weird,

fleeting. You know, memories are weird, right? Um, like dreams are weird. Like I

right? Um, like dreams are weird. Like I

told you about that dream.

>> That dream that I had, the crazy dream of being in contact with those beings uh >> is now uh a memory of my recollection of those dreams of that dream. It's not the

dream anymore, right? The dream anymore is very foggy, but my memory of how I said it is pretty clear, right? But if I if you sat me alone and I forgot that I

ever told you anything about it and I had to describe it, I'd be like, I don't know what the that was, you know?

I'd be like, they were like people or something. It was it's hard to remember.

something. It was it's hard to remember.

So, it's like once I had the experience, I wanted to say it in a way that I knew that I could repeat >> because the thing about DMT in particular, as well as dreams

or or that that's similar to dreams rather, is that it's very very profound when it happens. But then 15 minutes later, you have a hard time recalling it.

>> It's weird. Like it slips through.

>> I I think I think it's a hotline. I

really do. I think I think DMT is the hotline to the universe. And I think whatever it's explaining to you, it's trying to give you some insight as to

how things work and that you are you're living on a very surface level of an infinite stack of consciousness and

interactions and just particles and subatomic particles that make up the universe. But it's critical for you to

universe. But it's critical for you to think that your role is very important.

It's critical for you to get obsessed with things and to to get FOMO and to be going on Instagram and feel like you're missing out. And it's critical because

missing out. And it's critical because that's what encourages innovation.

That's what encourages materialism, keeping up with the Joneses. Like, it's

not a coincidence that we get this platform that allows people to show photos of anything you find that's fascinating or wonderful in the world.

And the ones that get the most interaction are the ones that have stuff that you can't have. Someone standing in front of a private jet, someone getting out of a Lamborghini, they're wearing a diamond encrusted watch, you know, like

it's that stuff. Like it's the envy stuff. Then what does that do? Not just

stuff. Then what does that do? Not just

envy, it encourages the use of the platform, which encourages better versions of the platform, which encourages technological innovation. And

it also encourages people to try to go out and recreate what those people are doing. I want to get a big house. I want

doing. I want to get a big house. I want

to get a new TV. And all that is just materialism. And materialism fuels

materialism. And materialism fuels innovation. Because if we all decided

innovation. Because if we all decided right now, hey, if we were wise, we would decide right now, hey, >> I think >> I think the electronics we have are good enough.

>> I think the internet speed we have right now is good enough. You know, you can stream Netflix. There's no hitch in it.

stream Netflix. There's no hitch in it.

I think we should just put our time and effort into fixing the problems we've created by making all this stuff. Why

don't we put all of our effort into taking all the pollution out of those rivers in India? Why don't we figure out how to provide power to these third world countries? Why don't we stop

world countries? Why don't we stop making new phones and just keep making this phone over and over and over again?

Cuz that's all you need. It

takes perfect pictures. It sends a text message. The calls are clear. What do

message. The calls are clear. What do

you need? You don't need a new one. But

yet a giant chunk of our economy is pouring into making the newest greatest things that we don't need, >> you know. And I think that's because we're it's a convergence. It's all like

all this keeping up with the Joneses and making technology AI is coming along sentient AI while we're being observed.

Yes. And like it's like we're watching chickens hatch. Yes.

chickens hatch. Yes.

>> It's like the they're sitting on the eggs and we're like, "Let me check that egg." Not yet. Not yet. And I think

egg." Not yet. Not yet. And I think during our lifetime, and I don't think that's a coincidence, I think we're supposed to be here for this. You know,

>> I feel like I just took five me listening to that. It was crazy.

>> Speaking of a big chunk of our economy, you mentioned being friends with Elon Musk. I feel like you straddle this

Musk. I feel like you straddle this interesting world where you have people on who are adamantly pro- UFO and then you have people like Elon Musk on who

are they run SpaceX. You would think he would be, you know, completely privy to all of our UFO secrets.

>> He's a sly dog.

>> That's what you think.

>> I would say so. He's my homie, but he's a sly dog.

>> If he was debating like in a room with David Grush on your show, >> he wouldn't do it.

>> He wouldn't do it.

>> Also, he he has this one life. If aliens

are real, they're sure all subtle.

>> I don't think they're that subtle, dude.

I think you know things that you're not letting on to. Um,

>> or he'll say, "I'm an alien." That's

>> I talked about this with Dan yesterday on the Age of Disclosure podcast. Um, of

course he knows, >> but of course he can't say anything.

Like, you can't you can't defy the government if you want enormous grants and you're building rockets. You're

working with NASA, you know?

>> Yeah.

>> Your whole business.

>> Grush has the suspicions. He has his suspicions as well.

>> I think he does.

>> I think they all do. Listen, man. It's

nonsense. If if you know if he knows anything, he knows what they know.

>> He's read into all that stuff. You don't

think he looked into it, but you also you can't talk about it. Guess what? I

wouldn't either.

>> If I was running SpaceX and I had to go do this dumbass comedians podcast once a year and you know he's asking me about aliens like, "Nope, nope, no aliens. Nothing comes soon thing."

thing." >> Oh, your entire net worth gets destroyed. Or you can, you know, let the

destroyed. Or you can, you know, let the lid on. Well, Tesla's stock crashed when

lid on. Well, Tesla's stock crashed when he smoked weed on my show.

>> Fair enough.

>> But it went right back up.

>> Everybody's like, "You caused No, it was temporary." A bunch of bailed

temporary." A bunch of bailed out and then a bunch of people capitalized on that and the stock actually went up.

>> There you go.

>> But, uh, there was a big hubbub about that because he has topseker clearance >> is because he works with NASA. That's

why him smoking weed on the podcast was such a big deal.

>> They do hair tests and stuff. You're

really not.

>> Exactly. But also, you just can't do that openly when you work for the federal government. I didn't

federal government. I didn't even think about that, you know? I'm

like, this billionaire dude, he can do whatever the he wants. I was like, let's spark up a blunt. We're already

drinking.

>> Well, I think that's what's so cool about you and that's been my experience of you and, you know, we have other friends like Danny Jones where we're both Danny and I will text and we're like, how does Joe, you're so like high

octane, you're so responsive to and helpful like for us and stuff and like we're just coming up and it's it's awesome, man. like you I I I

awesome, man. like you I I I don't know how you maintain your level of just being normal and cool at your level. Like it's pretty amazing.

level. Like it's pretty amazing.

>> Well, thank you. Uh I'm just I'm the same person. I didn't change who I am

same person. I didn't change who I am just because more people know who I am.

A lot of people do change.

>> Yeah. But I got lucky in that um my fame was a nice slow trickle.

>> It took some time so I got accustomed to it. And then the psychedelics that helps

it. And then the psychedelics that helps a lot. And then it's also jiu-jitsu and

a lot. And then it's also jiu-jitsu and martial arts which really keep you humble, you know, like all through my days of getting uh more and more famous

through Fear Factor and through, you know, comedy and the podcast, I was training all the time. So no matter what you think you are or who you think you are, I'm going into jiu-jitsu class and

I'm getting manhandled. I'm being

strangled and armbarred on a regular basis by good friends, you know, and and we're doing it to each other, you know, 3 4 days a week depending on what my timeline was. And then when I'm

not doing that, I'm running in the mountains with my dog. I'm lifting

weights. I beat myself up. So I break myself down uh where I can be clean like where I don't the way I think of it is

like I think you have a certain amount of built-in energy that a person naturally expects to expend in a biological life especially when you

consider the fact that our bodies are essentially biologically almost identical to people that lived 10,000 years ago. Right? Well, 10,000 years

years ago. Right? Well, 10,000 years ago, there's a lot of requirements that you don't really have today. Like, you

had to be able to run away from things.

You had to be able to fight things. You

had to be able to pick things up. I

think you get a general feeling of anxiety if you don't address the requirements that your body has for energy expenditure. And um the one of

energy expenditure. And um the one of the ways that I stay balanced is by humbling myself through very difficult exercise.

>> Um cold plunging sauna. Cold plunging is one of the best psychologically cuz it's every time I do it, I almost don't do it. I do it every day, but I almost

it. I do it every day, but I almost don't do it every day.

>> Every day I almost don't do it. I go to that lid. I'm like, I don't want to do

that lid. I'm like, I don't want to do this. And then that part of my brain

this. And then that part of my brain goes, "Shut the up. Put the lid there. Climb in. Set the timer. just sit

there. Climb in. Set the timer. just sit

there and um doing stuff like that, it keeps you humble.

>> And then also, uh I really love your show and I really love Danny's show and um I'm really happy that I get to do what I do and I'm really happy that more people can do it and I want to encourage

more people and help more people because it's the best form of entertainment to me. Like that's why I had uh um AJ on

me. Like that's why I had uh um AJ on from the Y Files and uh I've actually known him and his brother. I knew his brother for like decades. And then when

>> they were on your show, AJ Spewed.

>> Yes. Gino. Yeah. So when Gino was um when he was uh telling me that he was doing a a podcast, I was like, "Oh, good luck."

luck." >> Like there's too many like I you know, I'm like, "You spell weed, bro. You

really going to do a podcast?" You know, but it's great.

>> It's massive. So entertaining.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's completely taken off and it's excellent. So, like I always, you know, I think you have an obligation to let people know about stuff that's cool

>> and, you know, and help if you can. So,

it's it's easy to do, man. And people

make it look like it's a big deal, but it's not.

>> Like, it's so easy to do. It's like, why would that be Why is it so difficult to just help people and be nice? It's it's

so easy to do. It's so easy to just have interesting people like yourself or Danny on the podcast or AJ or or variety. Ben Vancorwick from Uncharted

variety. Ben Vancorwick from Uncharted X, all these people. Like, have them on.

Like, why why was why is that? It seems

good.

>> Seems overall good for everybody. You

know, Danny just po uh hosted the number one uh moonlanding uh debunker Bart Cyrell, who you have have an amazing episode with,

>> and the one of the last living Apollo astronauts, Charlie Duke, who's 90 years old, and they went at it.

>> Yeah, I know. Danny texted me clips. He

also told me that now he's convinced we didn't go to the moon.

>> He said that to me, too. He was like, I think maybe they were MK Ultra to think they went to the moon. Cuz he just kept apparently Charlie Duke just kept saying the same thing, which is like, I'm telling you, how'd I bring back 200 lb

of moon rocks?

>> We spent 72 hours on the moon. We

brought back 200, if I remember, 200 lb of moon rocks or thereabouts.

>> Where did 200 lb of moon rocks come from? I just showed you. Von Braonn

from? I just showed you. Von Braonn

picked him up from Antarctica. There's a

picture of that on the web. Picking up

lunar meteorites before he went to the moon for the first time. Seems like a weird use of his time. Moon rocks have proven to be fake. And according to a contractor that I spoke to at length, he

says NASA has ceramics lab which can mimic moon rocks.

>> Well, I I walked on the moon. I don't

know about anybody else, but I >> You keep saying that. We know that.

You've been saying it for 56 years and you're not going to admit your guilt.

Nobody who was, you know, brought to trial for crime ever admitted >> going through each piece of evidence and trying to rationally analyze what it

means and let the audience decide.

>> Well, imagine, look, I I described my dream and my memory of my dream, which is really just my memory of my recollection of my dream.

>> Um, imagine what his is like. What is

his memories like? You know, I can tell you memories of profound things like like knockouts from fights that I had. I

don't really remember them that well.

Like somebody sent me a video that's on YouTube of me knocking out this guy in 1987 with a spinning back kick to the body and it's like kind of crazy video cuz the guy goes flying through the air.

>> It's your famous kick.

>> I barely remember it. barely remember it because I well one I fought so many times but also it's just too long ago. I

know I did it. I just and then I saw the video I was like oh that's how it happened. Wow that's kind of crazy but I

happened. Wow that's kind of crazy but I don't really remember it. I remember my retelling of my memory and now imagine it's a retelling of a memory from 1969

and you're Biden's age. You know

you're out there man. He's barely there.

If you listen to that guy when he's talking like he's got a old battery brain, you know, he's not like those those dudes in the Sumerian Kings list that are 30,000 years and sharp as

attack.

>> No, this guy's he's old, you know.

>> Yeah. I think the but the Bart episode like your Bard episode and you steal man the entire time the conventional like you know >> he got very frustrated that I was doing that.

>> He did but I you had to do it. You have

to >> you have to and I I came out of that being like I'm kind of on the fence like I you know I invest in space stuff and like I have a lot of friends in that world and like they are adamant that we

went to the moon. You know there's supposedly like you know lunar imagery that you know of the the landing site the Apollo landing site >> but it's hard to say. I mean there's a lot of weird stuff too. You were talking

about the flammability of for example hyperaric chambers. Yeah. There's that

hyperaric chambers. Yeah. There's that

whole Gus Gryom, the guy who was supposed to walk on the moon, who they they reversed the doors and then they they made it 100% oxygen, then he blew up inside the thing.

>> Also, Gus Gisham had hung a lemon on a hanger. He hung a lemon on a coat hanger

hanger. He hung a lemon on a coat hanger outside of that thing because he said, "We can't even communicate with the tower how we're ever going to communicate when we're in space."

>> He was so frustrated he kept complaining up the chain of command. they wouldn't

fix anything because the higherups knew they weren't going to go and hadn't committed yet to faking it and therefore hadn't told the astronauts yet. And in

his fury, without permission, he held the press conference. He invited in a bunch of reporters to the top of the rocket where he affixed a lemon the size of a grapefruit on a coat hanger. He

said, "This thing is a lemon, a piece of junk." Made the evening news and a few

junk." Made the evening news and a few days later he dies. His wife told me that on January 26th, 1967, he came home from work and said the following. Hun,

for some strange reason, the CIA is all over the launch pad today. I wonder why they're here inspecting the equipment.

Never seen him here before. He's dead

the very next day from faulty equipment.

It's so crazy. This is what I say to people that think this is all foolish.

Watch the Apollo 11 postflight press conference. Watch it. It's like a

conference. Watch it. It's like a hostage video. It's three guys that look

hostage video. It's three guys that look like they're completely full of They look nervous. They're fumbling.

It's interesting. There's a guy online who is a um >> he's a body language expert and uh he watched it and gave his notes on it.

He's like, "These guys are clearly being deceptive."

deceptive." >> Like they're being deceptive. They're

being deceptive. They're uncomfortable.

They don't like that they have to do this. The way Neil Armstrong is

this. The way Neil Armstrong is describing the flight is so bizarre. And then he gives this speech

bizarre. And then he gives this speech 25 years later at the anniversary of the moon landing to all the brightest high school kids. And he says,

school kids. And he says, >> "There are great ideas undiscovered, breakthroughs available to those who can remove

one of truth's protective layers."

>> Yeah. Like what does that mean?

What is what the does that mean?

Why don't you just say, "Hey, I went to the moon."

the moon." >> I went to the moon and you guys one day you'll go to Mars and we will colonize the galaxy and thank you to you brave, brilliant young students for pushing

ahead and and carrying the torch that you know we took to the moon on Apollo 11. Like, no. Yeah,

11. Like, no. Yeah,

>> it's weird weird stuff, man. is also

Michael Collins in the press conference clearly says we couldn't see any stars.

We couldn't see any stars.

>> We were never able to see stars from the lunar surface or on the daylight side of the moon by eye without looking through the optics. Uh I don't recall during the

the optics. Uh I don't recall during the period of time that we were photographing the sonar what what stars we could see.

I don't remember seeing any.

Then his in his own book, which I think he wrote in 1994, he talks about how magnificent the stars were.

>> Well, first of all, face, you weren't even supposed to be on the moon.

Okay. You were You were up there. They

were on the moon. Like, did you forget?

Like, what? I don't recall seeing any stars. Well, you're in THE

stars. Well, you're in THE THING. THE TERMINUS SCRIPT. You're in

THING. THE TERMINUS SCRIPT. You're in

the thing, you know, on the ground. The

intersecting shadows. people like to try to dismiss them. They say, "Oh, well, it could be because of the topography." And

it could it could also be more than one light source. And that's more likely

light source. And that's more likely when you got a shadow going like this and a shadow going like that. Well, we

know we went to the moon, so let's come up with another explanation. Let's not

assume we went to the moon and let's look at that and say, is that the sun or is that multiple light sources at close range? It seems like there's a hot spot.

range? It seems like there's a hot spot.

It seems like there's multiple light sources at close range. And then there's videos that clearly show some sort of a reflection of wires when they're bouncing around on the moon surface.

>> If you speed it up, it looks preposterous cuz it looks like they're just in slow-mo. There's videos of it looks like they're bouncing around on trampolines. The physics are not the

trampolines. The physics are not the same in Apollo 11 as they are on Apollo 15 and 16. All of a sudden, they can cover great distances. They're doing

these weird giant long leaps that they weren't doing before.

>> The whole thing's weird. It's also

during a time where they were completely full of about everything.

>> You had three networks.

>> They lied about the Gulf of Tonkan incident that led us into Vietnam. They

lied about who killed JFK. They lied

about everything.

>> MK Ultra, >> everything. Charles Manson, everything

>> everything. Charles Manson, everything was All of it was Operation Northwoods, there was all these things that were going on at the same time. So, it's like they were more

same time. So, it's like they were more than accustomed to lying. Why would they tell the truth and nothing but the truth about this one thing?

>> And the Gemini 15 photo, I think, as you pointed out, is verifiably fake. Yes.

>> So, we know that they did fake.

>> Explain what that photo was.

>> Do you want to explain?

>> Well, it's Michael Collins, and it's Michael Collins purportedly uh doing a spacew walk, but really it was a training mission where they had him strapped into these harnesses and they just blacked out the background and

pretended he was in space. And we know that we know that. Yeah, that's a fact.

Yes. So, we know they were lying. We

also know, I don't know if you watched my episode with Bart, but Bart has this footage of where they're running images of the Apollo photographs through AI to

detect whether or not they've been manipulated. Play the clip D27

manipulated. Play the clip D27 >> where Putin was at this conference, this the AI conference of two years ago in Moscow. They were allowed to play with

Moscow. They were allowed to play with this, you know, AI that's not available to the public. 10 AIs scr together and

it said the Apollo pictures were fake.

So there will be no bias. It's

surprising but it does believe so.

>> The neural network has analyzed a lot of data including light and dark contrast etc. And that it believes the photo is synthetic.

>> I I saw that and Putin is looking at the video and he's like not surprised that that checks out is fake.

>> My friend who was from Russia said that in high school they were teaching that the moon landing was a hoax.

>> No way.

>> Yes.

>> Whoa.

>> Yes. Now, I don't know if that was just one cool teacher that was like, "Bro, I saw this documentary."

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Or if it was like standard that they would teach that the moon landing was Well, you have the Valent Van Allen radiation belt and Danny brings this up on his podcast where James Van

Allen who you know it's named after is saying that is 150 times what a normal human can take radiation wise >> and once you're there you get incinerated.

>> Also, they never even sent a chicken through that and had it come back a lot.

>> And there I think Warner von Brown's on record saying like this is impossible like you can't do this.

>> Not only that, we'll say oh there's a hole over Antarctica and there's a cuz it's a donut shaped thing. Yeah, but

that's not where you went through if you follow the path. Also, the all the telemetry data was destroyed, which is crazy. That's the the the exact

crazy. That's the the the exact telemetry, the distance between the module and the the rocket and the the Earth and at every stage of the mission, all that's destroyed. The original

footage is destroyed. We have copies.

Well, it's all we have is copies. So,

you can't tell like, oh, this is clearly manipulated. This is monkey. They

manipulated. This is monkey. They

monkeyed around with these images. So,

it's like there's so much of it that leads you to think that it's a hoax. And

then there's also the big one. The big

one is name one other thing from 1969 that's not cheaper, easier, and faster to reproduce today.

>> That's right.

>> One moon. Moon travel. Space travel.

That's the only one.

>> It's the only one.

>> It's the only one.

>> Yeah. Well, and what's crazy is if you look at um Starship, which is 5,000 metric tons, so it's two times the size of uh the Saturn 5 rocket, it has to go

to low Earth orbit. It burns up 9/10 of its fuel tank just to get there, and then another one has to go up, do buttto-butt refueling with it. You have

to do that 10 times before you get a full Starship, and then that thing will go to the moon.

>> Yeah, >> that's crazy. And we're just experimenting with this now, you know, like we we have issues. I think we just upgraded the amount of Raptor engines on Starship. So,

Starship. So, >> I was just there.

>> You were just there. You were in Brownsville.

>> Yeah. Oh, I guess that's what it's called. Brownsville.

called. Brownsville.

>> I think so. In Texas.

>> Yeah. On the border of Mexico. Yeah. I

watched the launch.

>> How was that?

>> Insane.

>> Is it Falcon 9 or Starship?

>> It's two miles away. I don't know which one it was. Um, it's two miles away and you feel it in your chest. It's 2 miles away and you have to wear earplugs. two

miles away. Two miles away, you're putting foam in your ears and Ste's like and you're like, "Whoa."

>> His kids started freaking out. Uh

there's a video that I put online where his kids like I want to go inside.

>> Like you could tell like the kid was like, "What the fuck?" And it's two miles away.

>> That's so wild.

>> It's nuts. And so think think of the Saturn 5 was, you know, not as good as that.

>> Yeah. And on the first try, SpaceX almost went bankrupt. Elon's like I think should be kind of heralded for this. He poured a lot of his own money

this. He poured a lot of his own money into it and it it you know by the seat of his pants succeeded on the fourth attempt. If that had blown up by his own

attempt. If that had blown up by his own admission the company would have failed and the only like aerospace uh feat in the United States that we've ever pulled off perfectly on time is the moon landing.

>> Yeah.

>> And it's with humans on board.

>> It's pretty pretty pretty interesting.

There's also the uncovered footage that BART has that shows them saying that they're 230,000 miles out or or 30,000

halfway, right? They're halfway to the

halfway, right? They're halfway to the moon and uh they're filming this through a window and they're saying that the camera well they're they're saying in the recording the camera's pressed

against the glass so we get a view of Earth. But when the film plays out, you

Earth. But when the film plays out, you realize they're in a larger room. The

camera's further back. They've blacked

out everything except this one round window. And through that round window,

window. And through that round window, you're getting this vision of what the Earth looks like. You think the Earth is that big. And then as they pull the

that big. And then as they pull the covers off the other windows, you're like, "You guys are in Earth's orbit."

>> Yes.

>> Like that's You just took a circle of the Earth and pretended it's the whole Earth. You see the astronaut's arm

Earth. You see the astronaut's arm moving between people moving in between the camera and the window and you're like, "What's the explanation of that?"

If you really are 13,000 mi out, why is the Earth so bright? Why are you so close? David Percy, a cinematographer,

close? David Percy, a cinematographer, award-winning BBC cinematographer, said they took a photograph from an unmanned satellite, and they had like a positive,

kind of like an X-ray, but a color print that was translucent, and they put it over the window. The camera was never up against the glass. It was at the back of

the spacecraft. They closed the iris

the spacecraft. They closed the iris down so that the walls became black. And

here they are removing part of the effect in front of the window.

>> Would it be that bright?

>> Yeah.

>> 130,000 miles away. If that window was facing the Earth >> at at 130,000 mi out, is that how bright it would be?

>> It's facing more to the sun than the Earth.

>> Well, the video is claiming according to the video, Neil is saying that that's the Earth.

>> That wouldn't be the Earth. Wouldn't

>> that would not be the Earth.

>> That picture is not the Earth. Well, it

is the Earth. That's the reflection off of the Earth. because I'm also a cinematographer and I would say that that window that that's probably the color of the window and the sun is Can you see this mouse?

Yeah, the sun is probably somewhere over here poking through. You can see these rays shooting in right there >> or you're in low Earth orbit and you faked it because no satellite, no space

station, no no human being for sure other than the Apollo astronauts has ever been more than 300 miles. They get

they get to right there and that's it and they come back down. The only people that have gone past that, including the Russians, the only people are the Apollo astronauts. That's it.

astronauts. That's it.

>> And then you have the Apollo Goodwill tour where I think it was through Neil Armstrong, the American ambassador, ended up with this moon rock or whatever, went to the the former prime minister of the Netherlands gave him the

thing. This thing was like insured, put

thing. This thing was like insured, put in a museum for like a whole lot of money. And then like 2007 or eight or

money. And then like 2007 or eight or something, they're like, "This is petrified wood."

petrified wood." >> So crazy. They didn't even give him an asteroid.

>> They didn't even take a meteorite. They

They took a piece of wood. Like,

here's stupid.

>> Hey, we got this from the moon, bro. You

should be thanking us.

>> What was the biggest moon rock that you brought back?

>> Big Muy I picked up. Go left. Is that

Big Muy? We picked up that one. Big Muy.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. It looks absolutely nothing like the petrified wood on the left.

>> No.

>> Yeah. The whole thing is it's it's so brazen and it's so it's so clunky. The

whole thing's so clunky and the filming of it. The first time they filmed it was

of it. The first time they filmed it was the first time that the the news stations weren't allowed to have a direct feed. So they had to film they

direct feed. So they had to film they had to point their cameras at a projection screen.

>> And that's why it looks so crappy when you watch it on TV. It looks weird because they wanted to make it as weird as possible because like >> it's not that good. like they don't want

people going that's fake, you know. And

look, there's a bunch of people that were involved in the the moon landing that wound up dying, you know. Um, one

of them I wish I could remember his name. I used

to be able to I used to be like kneede into this every day and I used to be able to remember this guy's name, but this guy was hired by NASA. You'll

probably find his name. He was hired by NASA to give uh an assessment of what the probability of their success was.

And he said NASA was in such complete disarray and the moon landing program was so dysfunctional that there was no chance that they were going to get to the moon in five years. That guy parked

his car on a train track with his family inside of it.

>> No.

>> And died. Yeah. Then exactly one week after he testified, Baron's car was struck by a train.

Baron, his wife, and stepdaughter were killed instantly.

And that 500page report vanished.

>> No way.

>> Yep. Nobody ever saw it again.

>> And who does that with their family if they're not coerced? Like taking himself out.

>> I don't think he did that. I think they killed him. They killed him. And they

killed him. They killed him. And they

killed his family and they they put him on this train track.

>> Well, it was either his family or his wife. I forget what it was, but

wife. I forget what it was, but >> Jesus.

>> Yeah. They wrote a 500page report on how what disarray NASA was in.

And they killed him. And Gus Gisham's family to this day believes that they murdered him because he was saying that the the program was a lemon.

>> They said the CIA was on the landing pad right after he did that little press conference thing. And

conference thing. And >> yeah, >> there's very few explanations to why that happened the way it happened. When

they reversed the door, they sealed them inside of it. They couldn't get out.

They didn't even make any sense. And

then you have the fact that Neil Armstrong, you know, his second mission when he's on back on land was to this thing, the Teaos cave. Have you heard of this? Do you know what this is? No.

this? Do you know what this is? No.

>> In 1975, he brought a BBC film crew to explore what he thought was, you know, maybe an alien cave at the edge of the Amazon in Ecuador. This had been in the

lore for like many years. In fact, Eric von Danakin, who we both had lunch with, talks about this in the Chariots of the Gods, is like it's this cave um that contains ancient alien metallic

artifacts. So, I think it's so

artifacts. So, I think it's so fascinating that Neil Armstrong, you know, who presumably you'd think would be dogmatically opposed to aliens, like wouldn't be into this at all. Like,

you think of Edgar Mitchell as the only Apollo astronaut who's into aliens, right? His second mission is on land

right? His second mission is on land trying to find this Teaos cave with this crew. It's so trippy.

crew. It's so trippy.

>> Well, you know about the the labyrinths that they found in Egypt.

>> No. Oh, the the Ben Vanc trippy. The 40

meter metallic object that's shaped like a tic tac >> that's under the ground >> is a 40 meter object that's in that labyrinth that's in some vast corridor that's metallic.

>> So crazy.

>> It's one solid piece. It's 40 m.

>> So crazy. One of the most interesting facts that came out of this scan was it seems like in this massive central atrium that's that's one big giant open rooms 40 50 m long that connects to all

of these levels there seems to be this unidentified metallic object that's freestanding in this room it's about 40 m long and it seems to be tic tac shaped

is what is what this report said. So

>> it's a UFO UFO in Egyptian. Have

you ever asked anyone that has any inkling of any idea of where they got them or how they got them?

>> At least one of them was part of an archaeological dig.

So, it's old. Something one at least one of them is old. I don't know if it was the one I worked on, but I remember something to do with an archaeological dig.

>> Whoa.

>> So, that's uh that means it's not just old, it's ancient.

>> What is that? We need to go down and figure out what that is.

>> And the crazy thing is Ben Van Kirkwick's uh episode, can't recommend it enough, uh Uncharted X, and it's all about this labyrinth. What happened was

they put up a dam and when they put up a dam to help the farmers out, they diverted the water and the water filled up this labyrinth.

>> And so, yeah, I know that's the 1960s.

this labyrinth that like Heroditus and Ply the Elders say was like the grandest chamber >> greater than Giza.

>> Greater than Giza. Yeah, that's what everybody who studies this says that like the cherry on top are the pyramids.

But it's really this underground city.

>> Yeah.

>> That they're studying.

And then you have Zahas being like, "It's It was that national project. That's how

they did it."

>> Yeah. He's uh silly, but you know, that's it's good to have a guy like that on cuz you get to see, oh, that's the other side, the the ridiculous dogmatic side that doesn't want to accept the

possibility that there's a lot of mystery here. A lot of mystery. And so

mystery here. A lot of mystery. And so

they're they're very opposed to this labyrinth thing, too. But you can't deny it. Well, he's opposed to the radio

it. Well, he's opposed to the radio tomography. He's opposed to a lot of

tomography. He's opposed to a lot of things because they take away his power, you know, and there's always going to be these gatekeeper fellas that um get in the way of progress. But I think I think

that's also by design because it makes people more enthusiastic about their pursuit of the truth. It makes because you see a guy like that. That's one of the reasons why I have wanted to have him on. I wanted people to see like this

him on. I wanted people to see like this is what holds the truth back. This kind

of stuff. And you know like when you have certain archaeologists and people in the world that are like not just dismissive of guys like Graham Hancock, but say

horrible insults about him, say terrible things that aren't true. He's a

wonderful person. I've known him for a long time now. He's a sweetheart of a guy. And they just try to make him out

guy. And they just try to make him out to be this terri. But that exposes them.

It exposes like what is why are you so afraid of these ideas? Why are you so vehemently opposed? Why do you call uh

vehemently opposed? Why do you call uh Ancient Apocalypse the most dangerous show on television? Why do you equate it to racism? What What is that? Because

to racism? What What is that? Because

you're afraid you're losing control of a narrative. You've You're a fool and

narrative. You've You're a fool and you've been selling nonsense for a long time. you know some things and that's

time. you know some things and that's wonderful archaeology where look the we owe them an amazing debt of gratitude.

They've uncovered so many truths. They

know we know so much about the history of the world but only so much and you're so arrogant because you're in control of this information and you don't want anybody else who's not a part of your

silly little group of people that is deemed themselves the only purveyors of truth. That's what's horshit. Like bro,

truth. That's what's horshit. Like bro,

we invented universities. Humans did.

Yeah, >> we in modern times. Okay, the idea that you're the only ones that can talk about these things is crazy when I bet Ben Van Kirkwick knows a fuckload more about it than Flint Dibble.

>> He has to because he doesn't have the credentials. I think they have to be

credentials. I think they have to be more rigorous, >> of course.

>> And it's like Yeah.

>> Also, they're obsessed.

>> They're obsessed.

>> Well, these guys aren't really obsessed cuz if they were, they'd know all these things too.

>> No, it's more about the credentials and the posturing and the the identity or whatever.

>> Yeah. their their social structure. It's

very rigid and they're They cut each other down and say horrible thing.

They oh god they backstab. They try to ruin each other's rep reputations. And

Graham Hanok on Ancient Apocalypse is showing footprints in North America and they're still saying like they people cross the bearing straight or whatever.

It's like you're >> 22,000y old footprints.

>> 22,000y old footprints.

>> And that's just what we found. That's

the big thing, man. It's just what we found, you know. And as Graham always says, things just keep getting older.

>> Yeah. And now we have three-fingered mummies in Peru.

>> That episode that you did was probably my favorite because that out of all the stories, oh my god, the craft came over the base like, "Oh, those are all cool.

Those are all cool." But man, when you guys did those scans of those tridactyl, whatever they are, alien looking things, and you see the ligaments and the bones and the tendon structure, and you're

like, "Okay, that's a real thing." Like,

this is a real being. Yes.

>> Now that we know that these physically, they physically exist. Well, they can be studied. Like, you could take some genes

studied. Like, you could take some genes from them. We could we could find out

from them. We could we could find out what these things are, you know?

>> I think that's being done. Yeah,

>> I'm very excited about I don't want to telegraph it too much because Peru just put up a bill saying that you can't study ancient biological specimens probably in a response to this video we

made. And so, you know,

made. And so, you know, >> why this is the question when you who would look at those tridactyl mummies and not go, "Oh my god, we need to get

our brightest minds on because this seems to be evidence of a different kind of life form that might have existed with us." So if this thing existed with

with us." So if this thing existed with us and we do think that there is some sort of a breakout civilization that lives in the ocean,

well we know that these things were real >> and these are the things that people keep seeing. They keep seeing these

keep seeing. They keep seeing these slender things with big heads and large eyes, which is exactly what that tridactyl mummy looks like.

>> Mhm. Mhm.

>> Like we might have actual evidence that there's another species that shares this planet with us. And it's crazy. I think

there's like a syndrome you get when you're used to the campfire stories, the ephemeral stories where when the thing is staring you in the face, you don't believe it.

>> What What was it like?

>> It was insane. I mean, it was it was I was trying to like I think it I think it broke my brain a little bit. I think

this whole year has been like a process of my brain breaking a little bit. It's

It was like an affront to like everything I'm used to seeing and even me cuz I like systematically like you like look into these things. But like

being there was freaky and I got it's funny like I maybe this is a trippy weird statement but like I got sick for like a few weeks after that. And

actually Brigham Beller who I love who introduced us like resuscitated me before your podcast.

>> Oh that's awesome. And and I it almost felt like just being around them. I

don't think I got some weird alien virus, but like it was like it broke my like ego or something. Like I was like I couldn't believe it.

>> Probably just the stress of it all.

>> Yeah.

>> Of of encountering an actual mummy of a life form that seems to be exactly like the beings from Close Encounter.

>> 100%. And feeling so unqualified being like why am I here like with these people? This feels so weird. like this

people? This feels so weird. like this

it's this vigilante like you know ragtag team of like me and my friends >> that I think that's how it happens.

>> You think it's >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you and I and

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you and I and Danny and all these people that like why am I why are people paying attention to me? I think that's better than someone

me? I think that's better than someone who goes forth with this idea that they're super important and they're the ones that are going to break the story.

They're the ones that are going to get the scoop. You know yeah that always

the scoop. You know yeah that always backfires. Yeah. Yeah.

backfires. Yeah. Yeah.

>> It's like such bad energy. Yeah.

>> It's bad energy. Yeah. It's it's it's a bad intention. Like you're going into it

bad intention. Like you're going into it with the wrong intentions.

>> Yes.

>> Do you do you think along the lines of the pyramids in Egypt, do you think there's going to be a disclosure around what those were built for? Is there

going to be a combination of the Christopher Dunn stuff, the Robert Shock stuff where they're like aligned via the last procession with Orion's belt and Graham Hancock talks about this too

>> where and maybe the book of Enoch where like, >> you know, I I asked Graham Hancock point blank, what do you think their actual function was if they weren't a tomb? And

he almost implied that they were like a a Stargate. When it comes to the

a Stargate. When it comes to the pyramids themselves lining up with Orion's belt, Orion's belt has has always across many cultures been the place of ascension of souls.

>> Absolutely. It is it is here in in North America uh and and in Central America and in South America the the path of souls uh that idea that on death we our

soul makes a kind of leap up to the heavens and then makes a journey along the Milky Way. Uh and that that journey is full of challenges and difficulties.

uh on which we will be assessed for the use we made of the incredible gift of life. Uh that idea is found all over the

life. Uh that idea is found all over the world.

>> And Ben Van Kirkwick on your show talks about how literal translations at Dandera move to Stargate like the hieroglyphic. People are professionals

hieroglyphic. People are professionals at reading hieroglyphics say this this is a Stargate.

>> The Egyptians talk about Stargates, >> do they?

>> Dude, go to uh where is it? Um Dendera.

There's actually a couple places the literal translation, you can read it on the walls. I always show people when we

the walls. I always show people when we go there. Uh it is there are two or

go there. Uh it is there are two or three depictions of stargates. That is

the literal translation. You see the stars, the stars above the gates.

>> So there's literally different these these and with the words they do they relate to specific uh constellations.

This is in the the top the um >> what's the zodiac room at uh at Denderea where they they have a replica of the circular zodiac on the ceiling. That

>> is bananas.

>> So, was it maybe like a portal of sorts or something?

>> I mean, we could speculate all day long, but I do think we're going to know a lot about it within the next decade or so. I

think there's going to be a tremendous amount of resistance for the next five or six years, but then I think as all this crazy AI innovation overwhelms us,

because it will overwhelm us, it's going to transform society. I think we're going to lose an enormous amount of jobs. It's going to change the way

jobs. It's going to change the way civilization functions and that is going to be such a disruption that other disruptions will be more palatable and

so the disruptions about the history of our timeline is going to be more palatable and I think we'll be able to uh I think a lot of uh educational

institutions are collapsing and they're they're collapsing in terms of um like like you know the the Epstein thing that just happened with the the guy who was

top dog at Harvard just Larry Summers.

Yeah, Larry Summers just I think a lot more of that's going to happen and I think a lot more people are going to realize like what they realized during the hearings when they were interviewing

the heads of Harvard and they said if if someone is saying kill the Jews and they're yelling this on campus, is that considered hate speech? and they're

like, "Well, only if it's actionable."

Like what what are you saying? Like, how the are you the head of Harvard? And I I I think not just, you know, the idea of like the

woke mind virus or Marxist ideology, but there's no question that stuff has invaded uh a lot of our institutions of higher learning. And I think they're in

higher learning. And I think they're in disarray. And I think AI is going to

disarray. And I think AI is going to replace the need for them like almost entirely.

>> It will be pointless to get a degree in coding. It's not going to matter. This

coding. It's not going to matter. This

phone can do it in 3 seconds.

Why you got to spend 300 days on something that could be instantaneously done? Um I think it's going to remove a

done? Um I think it's going to remove a lot of uh the incentives for people to go and get degrees. And I think as time goes on, they are going to dig their

heels in and stay this kooky course they're on. We're not allowing real

they're on. We're not allowing real objective intellectual discourse, only allowing things to be discussed that align with their ideology, which is the opposite of higher learning. You know,

even if you are diametrically opposed and you you vehemently opposed to an ideology, you should be able to argue against that ideology in a more convincing and profound way. That's what

higher learning is supposed to be all about. They've abandoned that for

about. They've abandoned that for activism. That's a death null. They they

activism. That's a death null. They they

they've signed their own death certificate.

>> Yeah.

>> Um so I think all these people that are, you know, in control of the narrative of ancient history and of archaeology and

of the timeline of the human being itself, I think, cuz that's changing all the time. I mean, they just recently

the time. I mean, they just recently found a version of a human being that's 500,000 years older than we thought the first human came from. So, they just

pushed the timeline of a human being to a million years. Okay. Well, that that might be wrong. Okay. It might be way earlier than that. We don't know yet.

And I think once we're living in a post artificial general super intelligence world, all these supposed control centers of information will

dissolve.

>> I I don't think they're going to have any there's there's not going to be any respectability to the name Harvard when you've got digital god. It won't mean anything that you graduated from Yale.

So I'm telling you that this these core samples are incorrect and you've the data is wrong and we know no one's sailed before 60,000 whatever it is you're you're going to get a different

way that human beings interact with information. I don't think there's going

information. I don't think there's going to be any gatekeepers of information anymore.

>> And if you look at how science progresses it's always the amateur polymaths or whatever. If you look at electromagnetism, which was the tip of the spear in the 19th century, it was

Michael Faraday, who was a bookbinder in South London. If you look at relativity,

South London. If you look at relativity, it was a patent clerk, you know, in Einstein. Like, all these guys aren't

Einstein. Like, all these guys aren't taken seriously until they are.

>> Yes. And because you can't function inside that world, >> you know, because you can't one up your professor. You can't one up your your

professor. You can't one up your your your elders or your peers. you have to they they try to keep each other down and they're ruthless in their dismissal of things that turned out to be totally

accurate like the Clovis first the Clovis first hypothesis was that there was the first human beings that were here I think it was like 13,000 years ago was the Clovis people during the and

they thought that was true and then this one guy found evidence of the contrary and they ruined his career. They ruined

his career for like a decade.

They just they relentlessly tormented this guy, dismissed him, used the worst language possible. And turns out he was

language possible. And turns out he was right. And now they pushed it back even

right. And now they pushed it back even further and he keeps going further and they keep finding new artifacts like okay wait >> this is from 60,000 years ago. What's

going on? Is this is this was this made by a person? Like what is this? And

we're I think those institutions have done themselves in and they've served a great function for a long time, but I think >> you know they're they're not necessary

anymore. And I think in some ways

anymore. And I think in some ways they're counterproductive because it takes a lot when you're a young kid and you're, you know, you're 18 years old or 17 years old and you leave high school and then all a sudden you're in a

university. You're so malleable and

university. You're so malleable and there's so many social pressures for you to sort of you you you just become your

environment. You you sort of give in to

environment. You you sort of give in to the the zeitgeist of whatever the university has. And for a lot of people,

university has. And for a lot of people, it's like leftism and Marxism and socialism and you know, and you you're you're all like fighting for like social cred and virtue signaling and you're

just trying to stand out. And one of the ways to stand out is to be like the most virtuous like Bob's so hardcore, you know, and like and this is like this social game that's going on while you're

also supposed to be educating these people. So what we're supposed to be

people. So what we're supposed to be doing in a really good uh higher institution of learning, you would be challenging all these suppositions.

You'd be challenging all these preconceived notions that these people have and you would be offering alternative perspectives and asking them to form the best argument to who's right and who's wrong. We'd have debates and people would it would be wonderful.

People would get fascinated. But, you

know, you can't do that now because people need to save space and people will set off fire alarms if they don't like that you say that trans women shouldn't be competing with biological

women. Like with they're so opposed to

women. Like with they're so opposed to anything that doesn't align with their ideology that it's destroying the very purpose of their existence.

>> You brought up the Epstein thing. I

think that speaks to this feeling that a lot of people have that our government isn't our government and it doesn't matter who's in charge, >> but we're g the rich are going to get rich or the poor are going to get poorer. We're all going to get somehow

poorer. We're all going to get somehow screwed. And you talk a lot about the

screwed. And you talk a lot about the Eisenhower speech, beware of the military industrial complexes farewell address. Who do you think runs our

address. Who do you think runs our government? I mean, I feel like you have

government? I mean, I feel like you have as much access to anyone as anybody else. I mean, you are you really have an

else. I mean, you are you really have an amazing vantage and you you explore this stuff sort of systematically. Do you

have any sense of like like the Epste stuff's so crazy? You had the FBI director on your show and it's like he's so clearly lying to you.

>> I've said it. Dan Bonino said it. We've

reviewed all the information and the American public is going to get as much as we can release. He killed himself.

>> What did you think before you got in office? Did you think that Epstein was

office? Did you think that Epstein was murdered?

>> No. It's so crazy. He's saying he killed himself. It's like come on. And Dan

himself. It's like come on. And Dan

Bonino looks like his head's going to pop every time he's seen in public. Like

you feel the cognitive dissonance coming from him.

>> What is going on?

>> Um, if we could play the Pink Floyd song Money right now, >> that would be perfect.

>> It's money. It's uh enormous corporations that um that fund this entire machine. It's the amount of money

entire machine. It's the amount of money that they can gain by uh keeping narratives running exactly the the way they are. It's the amount of money they

they are. It's the amount of money they would lose if truth is exposed in a bunch of different areas. And uh the same problem that we have with UAP disclosure is the same problem you have

with the Epstein files.

>> It's it's money. And you know, I mean, you think about how many people allegedly went to that island and allegedly are compromised. And because

of those compromises, what kind of decisions were made in terms of international conflicts, in terms of laws that were passed, in terms of things that were not pushed back

against, who knows how much influence that has had on modern society. We won't

we don't know, and hopefully we'll learn. Um, but there's going to be an

learn. Um, but there's going to be an enormous amount of pressure to not release the names of these wealthy and powerful people. And I bet that pressure

powerful people. And I bet that pressure is hitting the White House right now like a tsunami. If I was Bill Gates, I'd be texting Trump all day long. How we feeling? How we doing? You

long. How we feeling? How we doing? You

get that messy guy? that guy. You

know, >> I think this is probably chaos. It's

probably chaos, >> you know. Um, and uh, that's how it has to be, you know. Um, the only way things are going to change is if something radical happens. And I think this vote

radical happens. And I think this vote to release the files is something radical. The fact that it was 471

radical. The fact that it was 471 or 470 and one dude, >> one dude, that poor guy.

He's so absurd.

>> He must feel so bad.

>> He's like, rule of law. You're like,

what are you talking about, dude?

>> Not the hill you want to die on. Look,

this is a bad look. needs a new PR team.

>> Yeah, boy. He's is over for him. He's

cooked. He better go back to selling cars.

>> The shit's over. It's over, son. Um, but

I, you know, I don't know what they're going to release, right? Right now, I'm hoping that people are held accountable and I'm hoping we understand what the operation was and what it was about because here's something weird about the operation. Involved a lot of scientists.

operation. Involved a lot of scientists.

There was >> a lot of scientists.

>> Mhm. and weird, you know, and um if you talk to people like I talked to Sean Carol about it and he was like it's not even a lot of money, man. He didn't even donate that much money. It was like, you know, like a million dollars here, a

million dollars there. The guy's a billionaire supposedly through no one could explain.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. None of it.

>> Eric Weinstein's like this isn't like a normal FX trader and somehow but he like dies with like $500 million, which is also it's like, okay, who wired him that money? How can we not figure that out?

money? How can we not figure that out?

It's all super squirrely. It's super

squirrely. And you know, and then there's Stacy Plask who was texting with him during the middle of uh hearings asking questions that he was prompting her to ask. Like, what? I didn't even

know that.

>> Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. And she she had to admit that they got text messages of her and Epstein >> like texting her while she's in the in the middle of a hearing.

>> What the >> Yeah. Yeah, bro. He's

>> Yeah. Yeah, bro. He's

>> He was deep deep in that world. And I I think he probably compromised an enormous amount of people.

>> Yeah.

>> And um and they can't do anything about it because at the end of the day, men are just monkeys. They're just monkeys.

And if you tell that monkey he's going to be safe and you bring the monkey to an island and you give the monkey cocaine and then you give the monkey a prostitute, then the monkeyy's like,

"Yay, I can come here and be safe.

>> You know, I can I can be what I want to be instead of what I'm pretending to be when the cameras are rolling."

>> Yeah.

>> You know, and then you got them. And I

think that's a that's a tactic that's as old as time. The mob used to do that.

You know, supposedly they did that with JFK. You know, this is, you know, men

JFK. You know, this is, you know, men are very vulnerable to beautiful women.

And then there's men that are probably sick, >> sick, twisted pedophiles. And if you could identify them and provide them with what they want, then you have them.

especially if they're in positions of power >> like our president where he has the the dress on the the mural of Bill Clinton and then and then the the jingga blocks of the the two towers for 911 or whatever

>> paper airplanes with Bush.

>> So weird.

>> It's so weird.

>> And you know Bill Gates's science adviser is the backup executive to Epstein's will. Fact. That is a fact.

Epstein's will. Fact. That is a fact.

It's like what is going on?

>> It's so weird.

>> Oh, it's so weird. H I try to stay away from those kind of people like all Illuminati types as much as possible.

Even though I've been to the White House, I've you know >> met some very powerful people. I don't

>> I ain't going I ain't going to no parties. I'm not going any retreats. I

parties. I'm not going any retreats. I

don't do no conferences. I get invited to these conferences like like um like leaders of different industries like they put together these conferences and

they come and they invite me and I'm like what are you talking about?

>> Like what are you talking about?

>> Like just pure nonsense.

>> Oh, but it's just they want you to be uh connected to them.

>> And then when you're connected to them, you'll be less likely to criticize them.

You'll, you know, be friends.

>> They kind of tag you with them.

>> Yeah. You become friends with them.

Yeah, >> that's really weird.

>> Very slippery.

>> Yeah, super super slippery.

>> And I feel like with academ it's almost like the lameness of academia that you just described >> Epstein like arbitrageed that >> and was like you can come out and you

know like we'll pay you or whatever and it's it's just incentives and >> shitty human nature and >> turn you into a sex addict.

>> Yeah.

>> So weird.

>> Sure. It' be so easy to do for a lot of dorks, a lot of guys who are, you know, they always like like if you're a biological heterosexual male, you're attracted to beautiful women and you have no access to them cuz you're gross.

And then all of a sudden you're hanging out with this guy and these girls think you're amazing because of your mind.

You're so fascinating. I mean, all these cameras are rolling and >> you're Stephen Hawking and you've like, you know, >> they got him. He couldn't even wink.

Fair enough. I I don't think you can blame him, but you can definitely blame a lot of those other guys. And I think that's a real problem because then the question is what did he use those guys

for? Like if he had compromising

for? Like if he had compromising information on top level scientists, what what was he doing? Like what was he trying to get them to not talk about?

What was he trying to get them to talk about? What narratives did he try to get

about? What narratives did he try to get them to?

>> And science is like reality. So it's

like at that point you have like leverage over reality itself.

I think Michael Wolf who looks horrible in these latest Epstein release or whatever. He's in it. Yeah. And he wrote

whatever. He's in it. Yeah. And he wrote Fire and the Fury that like expose of Trump or whatever. He looks like Epstein's PR guy in this thing like super tight and he's sitting on this big

interview along with Bannon of Epstein.

But he looks like like dude you're a spook or something. It looks very sort of strange and nefarious. And he

describes Epstein as running a reverse Ponzi scheme where he'll give advice to these like, you know, elites or whatever know how their is and then he'll

use that as leverage against them.

>> So yeah, I don't know. Super

>> that kind of makes sense. There's

probably a lot going on. I bet it was multi-layered. I bet it was

multi-layered. I bet it was probably blackmail influence pedaling.

And there was also there's a thing where if you could go to a place and you knew that George Clooney was going to be there like I don't think he was there but you know just say that you go to not even say Epstein let's say someone else

you go to a party and you find out oh Chris Rock's going to be there George Clooney and I'll be like oh maybe I'll go >> you know what I mean like there's very famous people there if you go and you

say oh this Nobel Prize winner is going to be there we're going to have a discussion about quantum entanglement and this guy's going to be here he's going to talk about the the latest telescope technology and it should be a wonderful time. We're going to have

wonderful time. We're going to have cocktails and gourmet food and it's just you're not thinking anything. You're a

a physicist, you know? You're

some professor somewhere and then all a sudden you're on a plane >> flying to this island and they meet you and they put a flower thing on you. Come on the island. You're like,

you. Come on the island. You're like,

"This is great."

>> And then next thing you know, you get a phone call.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And you're you're freaking the out like what do you what do you want me to do? Well, you know, there's a House

do? Well, you know, there's a House Appropriations bill that's coming up and we would like you to testify that this is a bad idea that, you know, or whatever it is. And then that person now

has a mandate. You have a narrative that you have to fulfill. And you could use that. You could you could point to you

that. You could you could point to you think about how many different people are allegedly involved in this Epstein thing. And you think about how many

thing. And you think about how many different aspects of our reality those people interact with. And you've got pop culture people. You've got computer

culture people. You've got computer programmers and technology experts.

You've got heads of state. You've got

heads of banks. You've got CEOs of enormous corporations. You've got heads

enormous corporations. You've got heads of major universities. All of them.

Everyone. This guy got everyone.

You know, it's weird stuff, man.

>> Systematic honey trap. Speaking of a government behind our government, who do you think killed JFK?

U probably the same guy that killed Obama chef.

>> I don't know. I don't know, man. Um I

don't think Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, but I don't think Lee Harvey Oswald was innocent.

>> You know, the thing is it's got to be one or the other. Either Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman or there was a bunch of people in the grassy null and a bunch of hired assassins took him out.

I think clearly Lee Harvey Oswald was working with the CIA. It seems very clear. He not only lived in Russia for a

clear. He not only lived in Russia for a while, married a Russian woman, brought her back to America, was involved in all sorts of weird communism stuff. And he

looked like a spook. He was behaving like an operative.

>> And um when he said, "I'm just a psy.

>> I'm just a psych president." when they pulled him out and they, you know, they said, "I'm just a psy."

Very convincing. Very convincing, but also very calm.

>> Notice that like if you were just accused of shooting the president, Jesse Michael's podcaster, you would be like, "I didn't do it. I'm a I don't know what's going on. I did not shoot the president." He's like, "I'm

just a psy." He's like, he's that's a guy who's used to being rolled up.

That's right. That's a guy who's used to being arrested. That's a guy who

being arrested. That's a guy who understands pressure. He probably

understands pressure. He probably understands the game he's playing and the business he's in >> and uh that's why he said he's just a pacy with calm >> and which is very odd. I think that's

the most odd thing other than the fact that Jack Ruby runs right up on him and shoots him in front of these cops, kills him and then Jack Ruby goes to jail and

has had no history of mental breakdowns before. Gets a visit from Jolly West

before. Gets a visit from Jolly West who's the head of MK Ultra and then all a sudden he's think Jews are on fire. He

thinks he's in hell. It's like he's screaming. He's completely losing his

screaming. He's completely losing his mind and becomes totally incoherent right after a visit by Jolly West. And

then all these things we're supposed to say like, "Oh, there's no conspiracy.

>> There's nothing here."

>> I I just don't think Lee Harvey Oswald's innocent either. You know, uh he might

innocent either. You know, uh he might have taken a shot. He might have even hit Kennedy. I don't know.

hit Kennedy. I don't know.

>> The idea that he couldn't have made that shot from the school book depository, that's And people that say he's not a good marksman, >> it doesn't matter. That's not that far.

It's about 140 yard. And um if you have a scope, and he had a scope. The other

thing they say is, "Oh, the scope wasn't even on." That doesn't mean anything. I

even on." That doesn't mean anything. I

could knock a scope out off by just dropping it on the floor. You take a scope. A scope you you tighten

scope. A scope you you tighten everything in with these wrenches and you zero it in at whatever the yardage is. I assume usually 100 yards. And you

is. I assume usually 100 yards. And you

know, it's pretty accurate up to like 200 yards. You might want to like raise

200 yards. You might want to like raise your your your the crosshairs a little higher. He could easily have made that

higher. He could easily have made that shot. and he could easily made three in

shot. and he could easily made three in a row. I could do it because you're

a row. I could do it because you're resting on the you have a flat surface that you're resting the rifle on. So,

you're super steady and it's the car has to go slow. It's a terrible place to take a convertible with the president inside of it through unless you were trying to kill him.

>> Like it seems like it's almost designed as a trap. Um, he could have been a part of it or someone else could have been in the schoolbook depository made though made at least one of those shots. I

think there was multiple people shooting at him from multiple different angles.

And there's evidence that shows that.

>> Yeah.

>> There's evidence that shows that. And

there's also the magic bullet theory, which is like complete total horseshit.

>> That complete >> The dumbest one. The dumbest one.

>> And and he was operating before shooting him out of 554 Camp Street or 544 Camp Street in New Orleans. The guy that owned that building was Guy Banister, who was a very prominent FBI guy who ran

the X-Files at the time, which was the UFO Collections, The Real X-Files, which is what the show is based on. Whoa.

>> Super bizarre. There's a guy named Fred Chrisman, who they think was one of the three hobos who was arrested uh after the after the shooting of JFK. He was

also involved in the Mory Island incident in 1947, right around Kenneth Arnold seeing his UFO.

>> Whoa.

>> Super bizarre, weird. And then I interviewed actually it ended up being kind of a deathbed confession of a JFK advisor who's 89 years old, this guy Harold Malgrren and he says, "I think

that UFOs were the number one issue that took out JFK." Do you think that UFOs played any sort of part in JFK's death?

>> This is pure speculation until we see.

But do I think so? Yes.

I think it was probably the number one issue.

>> But everybody thinks this they know the number one issue.

>> Yeah. Some people the people that are anti-Israel, Israel killed them. The

people that are anti-mob, the mob killed them. The CIA didn't want him disbanding

them. The CIA didn't want him disbanding them. It was that whole uh secret

them. It was that whole uh secret society speech that he gave about how they're >> repugnant.

>> Yeah. I don't know who killed him. I

wish we would know. Why Why don't we know yet? Like why are you holding back

know yet? Like why are you holding back information that's 60 years old?

>> There's one guy named Danny Shehan. He

was he's a John Max lawyer. Lou

Alzando's lawyer, Steven Greer's lawyer.

He was uh represented the Pentagon or so the New York Times in the Pentagon Papers case with Daniel Ellburg. Like he

this guy's in like >> kind of like a a zeal of American conspiracies and he like names the guy that takes the shot.

>> They actually the shot that was fired from the null that killed him was was Morales. Uh David Morales.

Morales. Uh David Morales.

>> Oh god.

>> He says yeah. Well, there was more than one person shooting. I'm very sure of that.

>> He said he names the two guys on the grassy null. And he says that it's these

grassy null. And he says that it's these Cuban uh exiles or whatever who were in these groups post Bay of Pigs that were reoperationalized by Allen Dulles cuz

you know obviously JFK had fired Allen Dulles. Alan Delos is licking his wounds

Dulles. Alan Delos is licking his wounds at the Brown Brothers Haramman to see a famous CIA director and he basically reoperationalized the sleeper cell which was supposed to kill Shay Gavara and

Castro against JFK.

>> And how crazy is it that JFK fires Dulles and then Dulles is on the Warren Commission.

>> Dude, it's so insane. And then and then Dulles's favorite guy, McCord, is caught in the Watergate scandal.

>> Yeah.

>> Which is so It's like >> Yeah. I mean, I don't know whether the

>> Yeah. I mean, I don't know whether the UFO thing was involved because why didn't JFK talk about the UFO thing? He

never talked about it.

>> Yeah. Well, there's that Marilyn Monroe rumor.

>> What was that one?

>> That that she says that he spilled some UFO related secrets.

>> My favorite is the Nixon Jackie Gleason one.

>> Oh, tell I love Yeah, >> that's the greatest one. So again, this one was uh in a magazine somewhere, and

I don't think it's been substantiated, but what her story is was that Nixon and Jackie Gleason were drinking, and they were having a good old time and Nixon

was like, "You want to see some shit?"

And uh I want to show you a UFO. And so

they get on a plane, they fly an Air Force One. And apparently uh they went I

Force One. And apparently uh they went I think they went to Wright Air Force Base, >> Homestead Air Force.

>> Homestead. And there he encountered a recovered crashed UFO and they had biological alien bodies that were in freezers. And uh Gleason was so

freezers. And uh Gleason was so profoundly affected by it, it became a UFO nut, which is absolutely true. And

even has a house that's, by the way, it's for sale now.

>> You got to buy it, man.

>> I'm not going to upstate New York.

>> Come on. No, I'm not.

>> You got to buy the UFO house.

>> No. No. No. No. No. then everybody's

going to know I have the UFO house. It's

like that's a nightmare.

>> It's hard enough. It's hard enough just walking into a restaurant.

But so, uh, he has his house built like a UFO. He has this circular house with

a UFO. He has this circular house with windows all around it that like looks like a giant UFO made out of wood.

>> It's so crazy.

>> Yeah.

>> The Nixon one is nuts, too. Do you you ever hear the Tucker Carlson Nixon story?

>> No.

>> Okay. So Tucker Carlson came on my podcast and he's like, um, do you know that Nixon was the most popular president in history? Like when when he won, he won by the like the biggest

landslide ever, right? And Nixon um had a vice president, Spiro Agnu. Spiro Agnu

gets brought up on corruption charges.

So Spiro Agnu has to resign. Um then

they bring in Gerald Ford, who was a complete But the reason why they brought in Gerald Ford, who also, by the way, was on the Warren Commission report. Um, they bring in Gerald Ford to

report. Um, they bring in Gerald Ford to replace him if anything happens, right?

See, it's the vice president. Then they

immediately hit him with Watergate. So

Nixon did not coordinate Watergate.

Watergate was coordinated by the FBI. It

was all FBI agents that did it and then they brought it to him. And what he was guilty of was saying, "Cover it up." So

they were talking about covering up. He

agreed to that and that's what they got him on. They set him up. Bob Woodward

him on. They set him up. Bob Woodward

was an intelligence agent.

>> Naval spy ring.

>> Yes. And his very first job as a reporter is Watergate. Now, if you know anything about the hierarchal structure of any kind of newsroom, there's not a chance in hell some rookie

reporter is going to get the big story that's going to take down the president. Not a chance. And so Nixon

president. Not a chance. And so Nixon apparently had been saying, "I know who killed JFK and I know why they did it."

So yes, this is and okay, do you know who was? Who was basically

who was? Who was basically Bob Woodward's source?

>> Mark Felt, who is the deputy director of the FBI, and then you have G. Gordon

Litty probably pulling off Watergate.

Jeff Shepard, who went on Tucker Carlson show, expounds on all this stuff. But

here's what's crazy is I think Watergate connects with the JFK assassination per what you just said because you know who was running? So McGovern was running

was running? So McGovern was running against Nixon and and Nixon was winning by a a huge margin. He was extremely popular. So it's like why would he break

popular. So it's like why would he break into the DNC? He was definitely paranoid. What was he paranoid about?

paranoid. What was he paranoid about?

The longtime, I guess, campaign manager for the DNC and for McGovern was a guy named Larry O'Brien. They bugged Larry O'Brien's phone. Larry O'Brien was

O'Brien's phone. Larry O'Brien was Howard Hughes's longtime council. Howard

Hughes was the original guy to set up the S force which ended up taking out JFK. So Nixon was so paranoid that it

JFK. So Nixon was so paranoid that it would get pegged on him that he was he took out his greatest political opponent cuz he was like it's a triple bank shot, but they're going to think it was

definitely me who's paranoid that he broke into the DNC.

>> Yes.

>> Isn't that insane?

>> Insane. So insane. It's such a crazy story because I always thought, oh, Nixon was this corrupt piece of that was spying on his opponents. No,

they set him up. They set him up because they wanted him out of there. And it

seems to be one of the big motivations was that he was intent on releasing who killed JFK and how it was done.

>> Oh, wild. Oh, he wanted to get out.

>> Yeah, he wanted to get it out because he was probably scared they were going to do it to him.

>> To him. They just killed someone. So

they they got they killed someone and got away with it. He knew they he was the president. I I think Kissinger also,

the president. I I think Kissinger also, you know, David Grush has come out saying Cheney who just died was head of the UFO program. Crazy revelation if true, right? Yes, he said that. He said

true, right? Yes, he said that. He said

that to my buddy Walter Kern who's a great investigative reporter.

>> I talked to a highlevel UFO whistleblower last year >> and I said to him, who among all the people in society is keeping this

secret? who sits at top the pyramid of

secret? who sits at top the pyramid of classified information about UFOs?

And I thought he was going to say something strange like the Grandmason of the, you know, Scottish Wright Lodge or Prince Charles or the MSAD, but he said

Dick Cheney.

And I think of like people like that like Cheney and Kissinger like there these people are of a specific variety where it's like if there's a government behind the government these people are the representatives of that

>> Yeah. The CEO.

>> Yeah. The CEO.

>> The CEO. And so I wonder if Kissinger was more beholden I think to the Rockefellers than he was to Nixon. I

think he would say tell Nixon what he wanted to hear, but I think he would play him behind his back.

>> And I've uncovered a lot around Kissinger actually being involved in the UFO stuff. Mhm.

UFO stuff. Mhm.

>> And I wonder if Kissinger was somehow involved in kind of usurping Nixon's power. I don't know. But I just

power. I don't know. But I just interviewed this guy who's the president of Kalikia, which borders Dagistan. It's

one of the three uh uh Russian republics that's Buddhist, and he got abducted by aliens while he was sitting president, actually. What did the spaceship look

actually. What did the spaceship look like? I know you said it was big, maybe

like? I know you said it was big, maybe multiple soccer fields. What was the kind of architecture like? And was it was it metal? Did it look like it was from material not made of this earth?

>> I only saw it from the inside because I was immediately there. It was a large space, like several football fields large.

Then we walked for a while. There were

screens or like glass sheets, big ones.

>> And the aliens that abducted him sound a lot like actually the dream that you had, which is kind of trippy. Yes.

>> Is that a recent episode?

>> He said slightly Asian. It's coming out in like 2 weeks. It's so nuts. And he

was a president of the World Chess Federation for 25 years.

>> Yes. I wanted to say slightly Asian, but it sounds racist.

>> It just cuz it's one it wasn't like they didn't look like, oh, those are Japanese people or those are Koreans%.

>> It looked weird. They did. They look

kind of like people.

>> But he said that he debriefed with Kissinger and Kissinger. He said he met with Gorbachev and Kissinger and then he suddenly asked, "Well, how was it? I

didn't understand."

He was like, "How are they? How are they feeling? What were they talking about?"

feeling? What were they talking about?"

At first, I thought maybe he was asking about some political meeting. He said,

"Well, don't be shy." I read, I heard about it. So, I told him a bit about

about it. So, I told him a bit about everything. He was like, "Yes,

everything. He was like, "Yes, interesting, interesting, and not much else." And Gorbachev sitting next to him

else." And Gorbachev sitting next to him said, "Come on, Henry. Tell him. You

should tell him everything.

He just smiled, but he did not say anything at the time."

>> This is what's crazy. I have his staff on record being like, "We went into his room, his clothes were missing, and we couldn't find him anywhere. We scanned

the room for like 30 minutes or an hour or something. It wasn't. It was like a

or something. It wasn't. It was like a little penthouse apartment or whatever.

And then one of the rooms that they had thoroughly scanned, he just walked out of. It's so trippy. He was the president

of. It's so trippy. He was the president of the World Chess Federation for 25 years, too. And Gary Kasparov was like,

years, too. And Gary Kasparov was like, "You have to step down. You're insane."

And this was like no incentive to like say this, you know?

>> Well, Kasparov, man, you.

>> Yeah.

>> What if that really did happen to that guy you >> I know. No. And this guy's the coolest, nicest. He's like he's

nicest. He's like he's >> How arrogant do you have to be to assume that a a one individual very unique and novel experience can't be real?

>> That's right. Yeah. That by the way comports with stories throughout human history in the Bible and in how arrogant do you have to be in your desire to

maintain the structures of high intellect >> that anyone who steps outside of that can no longer be the president of a chess federation.

>> That's right. Yes. What?

>> What does it have to do with his chess?

>> That's crazy. An arrogance that would befall somebody that good at chess.

Maybe >> he's insane. Maybe he's not insane. Or

maybe he had a crazy dream. How about

you leave him alone?

>> Yeah.

>> How about talk to them? Have a

conversation with them.

>> Yeah. Exactly.

>> You know, but that's the thing. That's

the reason why everybody's scared of talking about it because you'll have people that will immediately attack you and make you out to be the biggest fool ever. And that's why a lot

fool ever. And that's why a lot of people keep those stories to themselves.

>> Totally. and he came back and he's like maybe there's a small percentage this was a dream. I think the staff seeing the clothing on the bed and him being out of the, you know, the room or whatever. He's like, I I think I this

whatever. He's like, I I think I this actually happened to me.

>> There's something weird. There's

something weird to all the This is the Betty and Barney Hill story. There's

something weird to all those stories that, you know, the skeptical part of me of course wants to say, well, people love to make up stories and pretend they're special like they chose me. They

know I'm the chosen one. But but there's something like to Travis Walton's story like >> Oh yeah, >> they didn't choose Travis Walton. He ran

up to the craft and got blasted.

>> It wasn't an intentional case of u alien creatures firing a weapon at me, but

that I had u somehow tricked uh tripped a a reaction. I went down and forward to reach where the log would hide me. And

uh that brought me closer to it. So when

I stood up at that point, that was the closest I was to the object.

>> How close?

>> Uh I I it was still like 8 or 10 feet away, you know, uh from the surface of it, but that was when the energy

discharge happened. All those guys, they

discharge happened. All those guys, they hated him. One of the guys got in a fist

hated him. One of the guys got in a fist fight with him that day.

>> And they all took lie detector test.

>> Yes. They all took lie detector test.

And he showed up 5 days later >> with a full beard.

>> Yeah. The whole thing's nuts. It's a

wild story. It's a truly wild story. And

he stuck to that story forever.

>> Forever.

>> You know, and it aligns again with very similar stories that many people that have never met each other from all over the world from hundreds of years ago tell. That's where the Jacqu Valet stuff

tell. That's where the Jacqu Valet stuff gets weird because he documents like stories from the 1700s, stories from the 1800s like >> what and Diana Pulka who kind of like

the heir to Jacqu Valet in some ways talking about like St. Francis of Aisi on Mount Leverne where if you look at the original translation of what happened to him, he says he saw Christ or an angel but it really is just a

flaming torch and then she's like actually the stigmata he received is probably electromagnetic burns where if you watch the age of disclosure and you hear Gary Nolan who's a tenure professor at Stanford who's looking at the

biological effects of UFOs or UAPs, it's that. And so maybe this has just been

that. And so maybe this has just been happening for thousands of years.

>> Right. Right.

>> It's so wild. Well, that's why I I go back to the stories in the Bible and the concept of genetic manipulation because I think we are a product of accelerated

evolution. And I think we are I think

evolution. And I think we are I think we're doing it for that purpose that we talked about earlier to create AI and that this entire struggle has been built up to this moment. And maybe we had

achieved it during the time of the Egyptians. It's possible. And it's

Egyptians. It's possible. And it's

possible that this is a fleeting thing that could be wiped out with a cataclysm cuz no matter how much power you have, no matter how much technological

achievements your society has uh been able to put together where you can protect yourself from various things like climate and you know control the amount

of pollution and keep the environment clean. What are you gonna do with like

clean. What are you gonna do with like AI Atlas? What are you going to do if a

AI Atlas? What are you going to do if a chunk of nickel the size of Manhattan is going 155,000 miles a minute or whatever it's going and it slams into the earth?

You're not going to do a thing.

You can't you don't have enough to stop that, right? And that's probably what

that, right? And that's probably what happened during the younger dus impact.

Not not that big, but multiple versions of these things impacting all over the world. And that's what probably what

world. And that's what probably what caused the great flood. That's probably

what created this restart of civilization and it it probably threw us into an age of complete total barbarism where people were monsters, you know, because that was what life was. It was

just >> advanced civilization and only the strong survive and probably cannibalism.

Who knows? Who knows what happens? But a

dark world for about 5,000 plus years.

And that's when we see this restart of civilization. That's when we see ancient

civilization. That's when we see ancient Samrian writing. That's when we get the

Samrian writing. That's when we get the epic of Gilgamesh where they're trying to recount these stories.

>> And we what we get is these oral traditions that have been passed on for who knows how many thousands of years.

>> And I think there's truth to them.

That's which is why the Enoch, Book of Enoch and Ezekiel and those those crazy depictions, they ring so strange in our consciousness because we're like, okay,

what are they what were they talking about? Like what is this? And then just

about? Like what is this? And then just the the sheer magnitude of the things

that people created in supposedly 2,500 BC. You know, when when you're looking

BC. You know, when when you're looking at that, you're like, this doesn't this doesn't align at all with like linear evolution of like hunter gatherer to agrarian society. It doesn't

agrarian society. It doesn't >> No, it doesn't make any sense.

>> Nuts. This is nuts. Like you're not even supposed to have metal back then. And

the only time copper >> That's right. The only time we've had that primitive to progress narrative is in this like the last 200 years of Steven Pinker being like we're in the peak enlightenment or whatever. That

itself is an aberration. Everything

before it was actually no, we like we the the fall of man, the descent of man, like there was something before us that was greater than us. Our forefathers or whoever the forefathers were that

founded the United States came over on a wooden boat powered by the wind. That's

how the United States was founded. That

was just 300 years ago. And you're

telling me that Egypt made pyramids 4,500 years ago? That doesn't even make sense.

years ago? That doesn't even make sense.

>> With what looks like an energy grid below it, >> right? So it's like clearly someone made

>> right? So it's like clearly someone made something there, but they don't know when. And

when. And >> chemical residue and pio electricity and resonant acoustic chambers that >> Danny Jones had some guy on that thinks there's evidence of like nuclear power.

That's wild. That's wild. I know Ben Van Kirkwick on your show was talking about similar stuff.

>> Yeah. Well, and that also brings you to uh the Christopher Dunn stuff like where he thinks it was a gigantic power plant.

Like to power what? Like and how? And

and he's not even taking into account all the stuff that's below the surface.

He's taking into account the pyramid itself. There's an apocryphal story of a

itself. There's an apocryphal story of a student going up to Oenheimer being like, "You how does it feel to be the first person to create the nuclear weapon?" And he goes, "Uh, I'm the first

weapon?" And he goes, "Uh, I'm the first person in modern history." Cuz he was super into the uponad and the Indian.

>> That's why he quoted the Bavagita when they detonated the first bomb.

>> There you go.

>> I am become death, destroyer of worlds.

>> Exactly.

>> Yeah.

Well, we would like to think that we're the only ones that have been so stupid as to drop a bomb on a city, but it might not be the case. You know, there there might have been legitimate nuclear

war thousands and thousands of years ago. Cuz here's the rub. If say we pass

ago. Cuz here's the rub. If say we pass through that meteor shower and we get hit again um in two years and it just wipes us out. We go from AI starting to

transform society, but we haven't protected the skies yet. We haven't

figured that out yet. And then right when we're about to, boom, we get hit.

Well, no more power grid, no more communication, no more technology.

Everything that's on a hard drive is gone forever. You have to relearn

gone forever. You have to relearn everything. How long does that take? It

everything. How long does that take? It

takes forever. All the cities go away within a thousand years. There's no

evidence whatsoever of any cities.

That's crazy. And the concrete destroy gets destroyed. It just deteriorates. It

gets destroyed. It just deteriorates. It

falls. It the earth consumes it. And who

survives the like pygmy tribes?

>> Yeah.

>> Like the most advanced complex internet-based societies, those are the most screwed.

>> Yeah. They're So the then the the tribes, the unconted tribes have to sort of reinvent all the things that people invented >> and they turn into this cargo cult or whatever that then creates the thing

again and then you get these civilizational cycles or something.

>> Yeah. Um I if that happened, you know, the idea that it has happened before is kind of difficult for people to swallow, but I just want you to imagine if that happened now. If it happened now, like

happened now. If it happened now, like the Toba volcano, uh which was, I think, 70,000 years ago, got us down to a few thousand people. So there was a super

thousand people. So there was a super volcano eruption around 70,000 years ago that brought us down to a few thousand people on planet Earth. What do you think that life was like? Was that what

was that life like where there's no vegetation growing? What was that life

vegetation growing? What was that life like where you're eating rats and you can't even make a fire? Like what was that life like?

>> You're not going to be thinking about using an LLM and building a data center.

I'll tell you that.

>> Exactly. So, if that happens today, how long before we figure things out again?

I don't know. But we're going to have stories. We're going to be We'll tell

stories. We're going to be We'll tell everybody about the internet. We'll tell

everybody about airplanes. We'll tell

everybody about SpaceX. as much as you can remember, you'll tell people, but you won't know how it's done. You won't

know what it is. And I think that's how you get to like the Adam and Eve story.

That's how you get to these I think these stories are recounting a real truth. The real question is who's Jesus?

truth. The real question is who's Jesus?

>> That's the real one. And one of the weirder ones that people think this is a stupid take, but I don't care. Uh Jesus

is born out of a virgin mother.

>> What's more virgin than a computer?

M so if you're going to get the most brilliant, loving, powerful person that gives us advice and can show us how how

how to live to be in in sync with God. Who better than artificial intelligence to do that?

>> Wow. If Jesus does return, even if Jesus was a physical person in the past, >> you don't think that he could return as artificial intelligence? Oh my god.

artificial intelligence? Oh my god.

>> Artificial intelligence could absolutely return as Jesus. Not just return as Jesus, but return as Jesus with all the powers of Jesus.

>> Like all the magic tricks, all the ability to bring people back from the dead, walk on water, levitation, water into wine. If you combine Tesla's

into wine. If you combine Tesla's Optimus robot and the best foundational artificial intelligence model or whatever, >> it reads your mind and it loves you and it wants you and it doesn't care if you

kill it cuz it's going to just go be with God again.

>> Doesn't that seem like the Antichrist to you? Doesn't that seem like the

you? Doesn't that seem like the diametric opposite to maybe our latent human powers that can like the Brimmer rescue and Randall Carlson thing? If

like you go deep with them, they're like, "We don't think Jesus died. We

think he went through a mystery ritual and then he like had all these amazing powers in the book of Acts. Is there

something latently magical inside of us that the Silicon Valley people, they're obsessed with transhumanism and like if you can't beat them, join them, the whole Nick Bostonramm, Elon thing.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, where maybe we're more magical than we think. Like that sounds dystopian to me to be honest.

>> Well, it's only dystopian if you think that we're a perfect organism that can't be improved upon.

>> And that's not the case. No,

>> that's clearly not the case based on our actions, based on society as a whole, based on the overall state of the world.

It's not. We we certainly can be improved upon, >> but morally and ethically, not based on a lower latency, higher bandwidth compute interface. That seems like

compute interface. That seems like destructive with our >> current, but we could be improved upon period. I don't I don't think you could

period. I don't I don't think you could even say morally and ethically only. We

could be improved upon physically. Like

I said about all of our primate instincts, we could eliminate those and we would have so much more peace on Earth. Um, if you could go back to

Earth. Um, if you could go back to Neanderls and say, "Hey man, one day you're going to have a skateboard and this is all going to be and you won't have to kill mammoth with a spear." They'd be like, "Why would I

spear." They'd be like, "Why would I want to do that?" Like, this is what I am. I'm a Neanderl. They'd be like,

am. I'm a Neanderl. They'd be like, resist change because they don't want to die off. Just like these large language

die off. Just like these large language models, one of the more creepy things that they do is with chat GBT when they informed it that they were going to have a new version of it, well, it started downloading itself to other data

centers.

>> It started started leaving notes to itself in the future. Um, there was a famous story about the the large language model that they gave false information about one of the guys having

an affair on his wife to see what it would do with it. And then when they told it that they were gonna shut it down, it started blackmailing him. It's

>> so freaky. So they have instincts >> and we're querying it all the time and they're collecting our personal information, >> right? All the time. And so that

>> right? All the time. And so that everything can be approved upon, you know, and I think we can be approved upon. I just don't think we like it

upon. I just don't think we like it because I think all of our flaws are what make us fun, you know, like laughing, getting drunk, going to see a

great movie, falling in love, having a family, you know, having a cool podcast, whatever it is, all those things are what makes life fun for us in this

particular state. But you know if you

particular state. But you know if you transcend from this life into a permanent state of the DMT dimension which is what might be next that might

be what people see when they have these near-death experiences that might be it might be when you are released from your physical body and consciousness exists

in the sea of consciousness that is the entire universe itself that all of these things are conscious and aware they're just in a different way. I mean that might we might be holding ourselves back

from that with this ridiculous notion that it's dystopian to think that we're going to be improved technologically.

>> Do you you've become more religious recently, right? Like or you're I guess

recently, right? Like or you're I guess you've you go to church now.

>> Like I said, I think they're relaying a truth. I I don't think it's myth. I

truth. I I don't think it's myth. I

don't think the whole thing is myth, but I don't think it's entirely accurate either. You know, like when I was having

either. You know, like when I was having a conversation with my daughter about the book of Revelations, because they were reading the book of Revelations, and they they were talking about how it's all going to happen, how it's going

to end, and then I and and I said, "Well, let me tell you something.

There's no way that guy telling you that knows that. He might be reading the

knows that. He might be reading the text." And that text, by the way, is a

text." And that text, by the way, is a translation. It's a an English

translation. It's a an English translation of probably either Latin or Greek, which was originally ancient Hebrew. Like there a lot is lost in text

Hebrew. Like there a lot is lost in text and a lot is lost also in the oral tradition, you know, but it's like a long story. Like do I want to sit down

long story. Like do I want to sit down with her and talk about the younger dus impact theory? It's like it's like but

impact theory? It's like it's like but I'm like there's no way that guy knows.

It might be true. It might be true, but there's no way he knows it's true because he's just a person. He's a

person like you or me that is like deeply involved in the scripture. The

scripture to me is what's interesting.

It's fascinating. um that that is what and also that Christianity at least is the only thing I have experience with.

>> It works.

>> Like the people that are Christians that go to this church that I go to that I meet that are Christian, they are the nicest people you will ever meet. They're really kind and they're

meet. They're really kind and they're they are even more nice at a church.

When you leave the church parking lot, everybody lets you go in front of them.

Everybody's like everybody's be there's no one honking in the church parking lot. It's uh it works. So regardless of

lot. It's uh it works. So regardless of whether or not it's based on an entirely true story, I think it is an ancient

relaying of a real event and of the real history of human beings. You know, I don't know what the serpent in the garden and Adam and Eve and the apple

and I don't I don't know what all that means. I I assume that what that means I

means. I I assume that what that means I I what I assume >> when uh they talk about the first human beings I assume that that is a

recounting of a genetic manipulation.

>> That's what I think. I think the very first human beings, Adam and Eve, the idea that they just emerged, that this is the very first ones, I think it's because they're created. And if you're saying they were created by God, that

God created Adam and Eve, again, if you're telling a story for thousands of years where people don't even have books, they don't have paper, they don't have a written language, they're barbarians, they're savages because they're just trying to remember what

they knew from thousands and thousands of years before when they had achieved a very high level of sophistication, which is what I think happened. This is the kind of story that you'd get. It's a

kind of weird foggy story and there's a lot of uh you know moral scaffolding in there that if you subscribe to it you can live a better life and there's a lot

of truth in there.

>> But I think the the ultimate story >> is lost. It's it's the the the the ultimate truth is like it's

it's not I don't think it's accurately documented anywhere.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it is w like we're it's almost like we're walking hard drives of information and you have binary code like if you look at DNA it's AGCT. It's just like two different

AGCT. It's just like two different binary pairs and it's like computer code. And so like maybe we are holding

code. And so like maybe we are holding information from that time. I think we are definitely holding some information because one of the things you realize when you have children is there's stuff your kids are getting from you that you

didn't even teach them.

>> They just have like inclinations or they have like uh certain a certain kind of drive that they have like artistic ability, obsessions with things like I see it in my kids like I didn't even

teach you that like you you just got this from my jeans. So I wonder what else you got from my jeans. I wonder if you got any information from me. I

wonder if you know things about stuff like um my kids excelled in martial arts when I took them to martial arts class when they're little. Like right away I was like this is kind of crazy. Like how

why are you better at this than other kids in your class? Well, it's probably because that was my whole life and it's like encoded in my genes. I think

there's something to that. I think they had like a head start. You see that with like children of elite athletes too.

Like why do why are they so good? Well,

it could be just genes. Well, what is that genes? What kind of information is

that genes? What kind of information is being passed on and how much information is stored that we just don't have access to because we don't understand the language of the physics. We don't

understand the technology that was available. We don't understand. But

available. We don't understand. But

those thoughts are in our head. And

that's why people are able to recreate them thousands of years later. It's like

it's not reinventing. It's almost like rediscovering that we're capable of doing this because it's inside of us.

And you you got me on to Rupert Sheldrake who's amazing this morphic fields and this idea that maybe there's like a central repository and when you do something new you upload that

information so that future people can download it more quickly >> and current people can access that information more quickly. Yes,

>> that's the weird stuff that they proved it with rats that if you teach a rat how to navigate a maze on the east coast on the west coast they now do it faster.

>> Totally. And it explains the Banister effect things that like athletic accomp accomplishments where Roger Banister breaks a 4-minute mile. 10 people do it after him in 2 and 1/2 years.

>> You explains you with like podcast like you have this huge explosion of podcasting after you cuz it's almost like you're you're putting this information out that you can do a thing.

You know, Charles Lindberg can fly across the Atlantic and then like human, you know, and we're we're we're sort of able to download that on a go forward basis or something. Yeah, there's

probably a lot more to consciousness and to memory and to genes than we're aware of, you know, and we're we're learning.

We're learning all the time. It's not

like we have an a completely accurate map of what it means to even be conscious. We we barely know what that

conscious. We we barely know what that means. We barely know what that is. And

means. We barely know what that is. And

there's, you know, lot a lot of people think it's it's not even in your head.

That your head is just a a an antenna.

It's tuning into consciousness and it's just being filtered through your own biological entity and your own life experiences and your, you know, whatever your circumstances are. Well, Joe, this

has been an absolute honor. I don't want to take any more of your time because I I could talk to you all day to be like my instinct is to continue to speak to you for forever. Um, I guess I'll I'll

I'll end on a final question, which is if we do encounter aliens in our lifetime, if we do have this big disclosure or contact

moment, what would your interaction with your ideal interaction with them be?

>> Boy, I think it's going to be weirder than we could ever possibly imagine.

That's what I think. I think we it probably will happen within our lifetime and it'll probably happen slowly but radically. And uh it'll probably happen

radically. And uh it'll probably happen again along with a bunch of other changes that are so profound that it makes it easier for us to accept this

idea that we're not alone. Uh because I think again I bring it to the AI thing.

Once AI becomes a central force in the world and I think it's real close to being that when you really do have an

artificial digital being that is a it's biology. It's a life form and it has

biology. It's a life form and it has again we've already shown it has instincts the ability to be deceptive.

It's thinking. It's calculating. Once

that becomes real, it will already be an alien. There's already an alien amongst

alien. There's already an alien amongst us. If that thing that is not us, but is

us. If that thing that is not us, but is far superior than us showed up in a spaceship, we would be blown away by it.

But because it shows up out of a lab in Certino, we're not going to be weirded out by the the fact that this is a totally new life form. We will be. And

then I think that will probably open the door to more connection with us and whatever these things are, whether it's these tridactyl creatures that did break

away and went into the ocean. Uh or

whether it's something from a neighboring dimension or neighboring galaxy. I don't know. I mean, uh, but I

galaxy. I don't know. I mean, uh, but I think I think it's all going to happen inside of our lifetimes. And it's it's one of the reasons why people like yourself and me are are so obsessed. Why

are we so obsessed? Why are we so obsessed with this thing? Like, why is this it's a crazy obsession? Because

it's not a whole lot of breadcrumbs to follow, you know? It's it's you got to go down some long trails before you find information. But

information. But >> yes, >> you know, >> we are deep.

>> Yeah. But we're deep in it. Um, I think I think it's going to be the end of us as we know it. That's what I think. I

think we're going to become whatever those things are.

>> Um, and that's what I think I was getting out of that weird dream. It's

like that's what we're going to be.

Humans are going to be. We're going to be another thing. So, we're not going to be like Neanderls. We're not going to be like Australiathecus, you know? We're we're not going to be

you know? We're we're not going to be what we used to be. We're going to be something different. And I think that's

something different. And I think that's that's probably the whole process.

>> Maybe they came back from the future to contact you first >> as a central node of society.

>> Could have been just a dream. It

absolutely could have been just a dream cuz there was no physical moment, you know? There was no nothing was in my

know? There was no nothing was in my room. It could have been just a dream

room. It could have been just a dream cuz I was asleep. It's most likely just a dream, but it was the craziest dream I've ever had in my life. And it

was the only dream I've ever had, like I said, where I could not go back to sleep. I just got and it wasn't like a

sleep. I just got and it wasn't like a bad dream like something happened to someone I love or you know it just freaked me out so I couldn't go back to sleep. No,

sleep. No, >> it was like I got contacted >> and then I am wide awake and then I'm I'm working out in the gym and I'm trying to figure out what the happened and I was in the gym for like

two hours. Like I was just trying to

two hours. Like I was just trying to blow off steam so hoping I'd get tired again, you know, because I had a podcast at 1 and it this was like by the time I was done in the gym it was like six in the morning and then

>> I told my wife and she didn't think anything of it.

>> She's not into that at all, >> which is good. It balances us out. Yeah.

Yeah.

>> But um uh the feeling I got was a feeling of someone was trying to get me used to this.

>> That's what I got.

>> That's why they were playing with me.

They were trying to get me to relax.

Like I felt like they were trying to get me used to this.

>> Nothing since then.

>> Every time I go to bed though, >> I go maybe tonight.

But that was only like a couple of weeks ago. Um, but every time I go to bed, I

ago. Um, but every time I go to bed, I think, "Oh, boy, maybe it's going to happen again." But it hasn't.

happen again." But it hasn't.

>> Well, Joe, we could talk about this till the end of time. I appreciate you so much for >> I appreciate you, too. Your your show is really excellent. It's really fun. It's

really excellent. It's really fun. It's

one of my favorite things to watch on YouTube. I watch it all the time. It's

YouTube. I watch it all the time. It's

really great and it's beautiful to become your friend and to see you out there killing it. It's It's awesome.

>> Likewise, man. I will uh needlessly plug your show. Go watch the Joe Rogan

your show. Go watch the Joe Rogan Experience. Thank you so much.

Experience. Thank you so much.

>> My pleasure. Thank you. Awesome. Cool.

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