The Money Making Expert: The Fastest Way to Build a Profitable Personal Brand in the New Era of AI

Content is not fun. If you're not making money, you're going to burn out. So, the

only way to make it worth it for you is to actually get a reward. You don't need a big following. Literally, if you post a LinkedIn post and maybe a thousand people see it, one guy might actually hit you up and then you talk to him on the phone and you sell them. And AI is a

game changer. The world is sleeping on

game changer. The world is sleeping on this. Like, if someone said, "Hey, I

this. Like, if someone said, "Hey, I have a magical tool that anything you do in your life, you can do it five times faster. It only costs 20 bucks a month."

faster. It only costs 20 bucks a month."

That's crazy.

Okay, guys. I have a little secret. For

the past 11 months, I've come into every single episode of this show wearing this stayed delusional t-shirt. And so that was intentional. I wanted something to

was intentional. I wanted something to wear on the show that I loved. However,

after popular demand, we're opening it up. And so, you can now go and get your

up. And so, you can now go and get your very own Stay Delusional t-shirt. I just

wanted to share with you the promo video that we created. It was really an act of love. It was all shot on my iPhone. And

love. It was all shot on my iPhone. And

if you want to grab one of these t-shirts and support me, the mission, the show, everything, then you can also go to the link in the description and

cop your own merch. But without further ado, let me know what you guys think.

[Music] Complete delusion.

You got to believe the delusion because it's only delusional until it works.

So, is it really delusional?

I think about that person that's sitting at home right now and they don't know who you or I are. They don't know either of us. But what they do know is that

of us. But what they do know is that every time they go on the internet, they see entrepreneurs that have had this success and like the impact of their

personal brand. However, whenever they

personal brand. However, whenever they try to post online, whether it's on LinkedIn or YouTube, it's feels like they're yelling into the void. Like, it

gets no engagement. It gets no traction, no sales, and there's like a frustration. They

just feel stuck and kind of in their head on the whole thing.

And so Patrick, for that human being, what do you hope is the value to them of listening to the conversation that you and I are about to have. Right. So

starting things off, you know, appreciate you having me on the show first of all, right? Um, and for the people listening, you know, for us to give you the most value since you're, you know, listening to this podcast

here, the main thing is really like you have to understand that we're living in a creative economy where literally people are becoming somebody's out of nowhere. Some people have a nineto-ive

nowhere. Some people have a nineto-ive job and then they just start making content and they blow up. Some people

have businesses where everything's like by referral and who they know. They

start posting content online and suddenly the business is starting blowing up as well. And this is just the world we live in, right? And so my goal for you guys today is to show you how you can actually build a personal brand

from scratch, from zero. Even if you don't have a following, even if you've never made content before, even if you feel like you don't have time to even make content, you do. You just have to make the time for things that are

important. And I want to show you how

important. And I want to show you how you can do this profitably. How you can do this in a way where you're not just, you know, being a clown on social media following trends, but actually providing real value so that you can attract

people that are willing to pay you money for what you know inside your head, right? Which we'll kind of dive in

right? Which we'll kind of dive in deeper, right? So the main thing, how do

deeper, right? So the main thing, how do you build a personal brand around the things you love, the things you're passionate about, and attract a tribe of people that resonate with your style, your way of doing things, so you can be

your authentic self online rather than being fake and just trying to impress people. Does that make sense? You know,

people. Does that make sense? You know,

I think that's such a it's such a beautiful intention for the episode. And

there was something that you said. You

said uh like people, we don't want to be like a clown. You don't want to be a clown on social media. And it's an interesting point because I think a lot of people feel that whenever they get

online or start marketing themselves online, it's like they have to perform like it's it doesn't feel authentic.

And so I'm curious because for what you do, you do it in a very authentic way and even the clients that you work with, it's very important that they kind of are able to integrate their

personalities into the content that they do. I

actually wanted to um I wanted to go to your story and there was a post that you put on LinkedIn that I wanted to read and then

get you to elaborate on. Um

so you said looking back the times when everything fell apart when I lost all my money were the moments that forced me to

pause focus and figure out what my next move would be. I remember when my 9-to-f5 wasn't fulfilling anymore. So, I

took the leap and left to start something on my own. But soon after, I ran out of savings and was forced into a corner. That moment of desperation was

corner. That moment of desperation was when I realized I could teach my sales skills online and that changed everything. And so, during those dark

everything. And so, during those dark times, staring at the ceiling in the middle of the night or reflecting on my life, I found clarity. Those painful

moments became the catalyst that pushed me to gather my strength and take action. And so there's there's literally

action. And so there's there's literally so much there that we could go over, but I want to take I want to talk about that

moment of clarity. Like let just take us all back for a second that night or that moment you're staring at the ceiling and

there's this kind of realization of like wait the things that I just my story mixed with the things that I already have a skill set in I could actually

build a multi6figure brand off doing that like take take us back to that what led to that realization okay so for context right um basically I had worked

in tech sales for about a little bit less than two years. And then my goal was always to be an entrepreneur. It

wasn't always to be an employee, right?

But I needed to learn how to sell in order to start my own business, right?

Cuz in business, either you're creating the product or service or you're selling. So I learned to sell. Once I

selling. So I learned to sell. Once I

learned to sell and I had enough savings, I wanted to live in Asia and um I had a friend living in Thailand at the time. So that's where I started. So I

time. So that's where I started. So I

quit my job, moved to Thailand, reduced my expenses by a lot and really just tried to uh figure it out, right? And

for, you know, half a year, I lived basically in Thailand and Vietnam trying out different ideas, nothing really sticking. Then, as I was running out of

sticking. Then, as I was running out of money, I was like, "Okay, I got to move back in with my parents cuz I'm literally going to run out if at this rate, right?" So, I moved back in with

rate, right?" So, I moved back in with my parents and I also got sick of the digital nomad thing. Um, and I I kept trying different ideas with different people. Like, I tried, you know, doing

people. Like, I tried, you know, doing apps in the app store. I tried um doing a matcha ice cream shop, like a physical location where I would go to events and

sell matcha ice cream. Horrible business

by the way, terrible profit margins. And

um so basically after I used up all my savings, I had about like maybe like $200 in my bank account. Um I remember one month after this was after a year after quitting my job, right? And I kind

of felt like a loser because I spent an entire year trying maybe five or six different models, you know, uh, taking all these courses and stuff and nothing was really sticking.

And um, it's either I go back and just get a job, which I could cuz I was pretty good at selling, or I give myself one more shot and figure it out.

Basically, when I got put into a desperate situation, I was like, "Okay, like what do I do? If I fail, I get a job. But if I want to make money this

job. But if I want to make money this month, what what would it be? And prior

to getting to this point, I had taken a bunch of online courses on how to make online courses, ironically enough, right? And um so I thought, okay, I kind

right? And um so I thought, okay, I kind of know how to make an online course. I

I understand it, but I've never really been successful at it. So what's

something I can actually teach online that people would pay money for? And you

know back when I was at Oracle I was actually teaching a lot of my peers and like you know teaching them how to do code emails and how to use LinkedIn but like teaching entire teams right and um

so I was like well a lot of people asked me at Oracle to teach them I didn't get paid extra I just did it for fun because I enjoyed it so I thought why don't I just create a course and uh put online

and see what happens. So, you know, at the time like udemy.com was really popular and um I just literally made a course on uh how to uh lead generation machine, that's what it was called, how

to generate leads with cold email with my background in tech sales, right? And

the first month, you know, I made $1,000. It ranked it it became like a

$1,000. It ranked it it became like a top rated course in the first month. I

was like, "Oh, shoot. That's crazy."

Then I made another course on um sales, right? Once you generate lead, you got

right? Once you generate lead, you got to get them on the phone and sell, right? So it's like it was called sales

right? So it's like it was called sales machine and uh I taught people that and I just kept making all these courses on Udemy and um the amount of money I would make every month would keep going up

right because every course I made became you know a bestseller essentially at that time. So once I made enough and I

that time. So once I made enough and I felt comfortable, I basically moved back to Vietnam and started a new life and um just just went from there, you know,

it's it's beautiful like being going from employee to entrepreneur. Um and

it's it's a nice stepping stone. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I think there's so many I think about that person listening at home that feels like stuck. And to so many of us, I think anyone that has kind of like entrepreneurial ambitions,

the the thing that kind of drives us is like that freedom, like that there's always that you kind of have that utopian vision of like one day there's going to be like a freedom over my time

and money and my location.

And it's interesting because um I actually read about this from from Seth Goden. We had him on the show a

Seth Goden. We had him on the show a couple months back and he talks about the dip, which is like whenever you're in pursuit of something, you go through

this stage, this like tricky stage in the middle on the way to your goal. And

he calls it the dip, which is like it's just getting difficult. You've maybe

tried the thing a few times, it's not working. And his thing is like if you

working. And his thing is like if you can somehow maintain through the dip, you'll be able to reach the other side.

And it feels like in your story there was like this very clear moment of you kind of being in the dip like that $200

in your bank account. I'm curious for you like when you reflect on it with who you are now and where you're at now,

what was that thing that when you were kind of like in the clutches of the dip, it kind of kept you moving forward? Like

what was the thing that made you think to yourself, "No, I'm going to try one more thing. I'm going to try and sell

more thing. I'm going to try and sell this or market this." Like what was that?

Yeah, that's uh very interesting. Um,

and uh, yeah, Seth Golden is definitely one of the people I studied when I first started reading a bunch of books when I got out of college. So, yeah, I'm very familiar with the dip. Um,

for me, I think it's about identity. So,

thinking back on that night when I was looking at the ceiling and wondering like what I should do next, the reason why I didn't quit was because I didn't see myself as a quitter, right? It's

like I don't want to see myself as a loser. It would be a shame if I spent

loser. It would be a shame if I spent all my savings and an entire year of my time to fail and go back with my tail

between my legs to where I had started, right? That's just like a like a life

right? That's just like a like a life failure, right? So, I think that pain of

failure, right? So, I think that pain of or I guess the avoidance of me failing myself was so strong that I was just willing to just try something or keep

going, right? And I and I feel like even

going, right? And I and I feel like even in my life, it's like I it's like I don't fail. I just I just keep going until I get it. That's just

how I am, right? There is no fail. It's

only you either keep going and it takes longer than you think or you quit, right? And I don't quit.

So, you know, it's like there's no option. Yeah. That's that's kind of how

option. Yeah. That's that's kind of how I feel about it, you know, and even let's say in the case where I did run out of money, what would I do? I mean,

I'll tell you at that time I was selling all my stuff, you know, to to buy more time. So, I remember I had like a bike

time. So, I remember I had like a bike that I bought for like, you know, 500.

It was like a fixie bike, $500 like back in the day. And I was like, "Okay, I still have that. Let me sell that." Then

I had extra iPhone. That's another $400.

So, that's that's like a, you know, $800 right there. It buys me enough time for

right there. It buys me enough time for like a month or two, right? So, you

know, it's like I was selling my old jeans, like old designer jeans. Like, I

would I bought it for like 200 bucks back in the day. Then on eBay, I would sell it for like $90, right? But it's

still like close to $100, right? So you

add all these things together, like it can buy time. So, you know, it's like I I would do things like that. You just

don't die, you know? And um I I think, you know, extending that lesson into content creation. A lot of people, they

content creation. A lot of people, they make content, it gets 20 views, and then like they give up. Think, "Oh, nobody nobody's watching. It doesn't work." Or,

nobody's watching. It doesn't work." Or,

"I bought your coaching program, and you told me to do this, and it doesn't work." And I'm like, "Well, how many

work." And I'm like, "Well, how many videos you make?" uh you know, seven.

And I'm like, yeah, that's why like nobody like barely anybody pops off at seven videos, right? Like my first year of YouTube, I'll tell you this. I I made a video every single week. So, let's

call it like 50 videos in a year. And

total amount of views I got was about 45,000 for the entire channel.

Subscribers was about 4 to 6,000, I forget exactly. And that's entire year.

forget exactly. And that's entire year.

Can you imagine 40 to 50,000 views for an entire year? like you're barely like getting by, right? So, but now I have 300,000 subscribers. So, if I gave up my

300,000 subscribers. So, if I gave up my first year, then I would have never got to the point I'm at now, right? You know

what? I want to I want to get into the three-step framework around how someone can build a profitable personal brand.

Before we do though, I want to talk about just quickly the speed aspect of it because you this is something that you said in one of your LinkedIn posts.

said, "I'll start my business when I'm ready." I hear this excuse every day,

ready." I hear this excuse every day, but here's what most people don't realize. My client became an AI

realize. My client became an AI consultant in 8 weeks. Another built a lead genen agency in 30 days. And so

I'm curious just for you to kind of talk about like what you've seen that like once people implement the framework that we're about to go over,

how quickly and the speed at which people actually start seeing results. Yeah. Talk to me about that.

results. Yeah. Talk to me about that.

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So, it's actually pretty crazy. So,

basically, um, what he's talking about is I have this program called Founder X, right? And essentially what I do is I

right? And essentially what I do is I help people and a lot of them are actually they have a 9 toive job and they want to start making money online and start working for themselves, right?

So, in terms of like speed and how fast people get get results, like the fastest I've seen it happen to multiple people, it's like 2 weeks to get a high ticket client. And when I say high ticket,

client. And when I say high ticket, let's call it uh 2K to 5K, you know, per client. Sometimes they have a monthly

client. Sometimes they have a monthly retainer, sometimes it's a coaching program, so it's like a one shot, but essentially for thousands of dollars right now. I mean, why is like how is it

right now. I mean, why is like how is it possible that people can make money so fast? Like for me, you know, it took me

fast? Like for me, you know, it took me a year before I could make $1,000 a month, right? So like how is it possible

month, right? So like how is it possible that these guys with no experience well and you know, paying me for coaching obviously like what what are they doing different? Like what do they know that

different? Like what do they know that you don't know that allows them to make money, right? And I think the reason why

money, right? And I think the reason why they're able to do it is because they tap into their strengths, you know, they tap into like because all these guys when they come to me, they come with

problems. They say, "Oh, Patrick, I've been trying to become a coach for the last, you know, four months and I'm I'm struggling to get clients." And it really it's just a couple tweaks in what they're doing in their messaging that will allow them get to get clients

instantly because you don't need the biggest following to sign someone up.

Like if you're a really good sales coach, for example, and you have 10 years of experience and you're like, I want to start coaching people as a full-time person, like you don't need a big following. Literally, if you post a

big following. Literally, if you post a LinkedIn post and maybe a thousand people see it, one guy might actually hit you up and then you talk to him on the phone and you sell, right? Like it's

literally like that, you know? So, like

think about like let's say, you know, an accountant. How many followers do you

accountant. How many followers do you think accountants have? Like nothing.

How how do they still get clients?

Because they provide a good service, right? So I think people they I mean

right? So I think people they I mean like it's everyone thinks like oh like you need to be a big creator right because um you know that's what you see online but in reality it's not it's you

need to provide value and then you need people to see that value right which we can talk into the steps but essentially that's the main thing provide some value get a couple people to know who you are and sell

I mean simple right like it's funny to to I I'll give people this context before we get into it Um cuz we had a conversation before this and it was meant I even told you before I was

like it's going to be like a 20-minute conversation. We end up just talking for

conversation. We end up just talking for like over an hour. Yeah. And in it you shared with you shared with me um like this three-step framework for how

someone can build a profitable personal brand in 2025. So in kind of like this AI era that we're going into and beyond.

And it was so like simple that when you shared it, I was like, "Okay, that's where we have to go." Like that's it.

And so before we get into it, talk to me about AI because I think there's so many videos at the moment

uh even some of them on this channel where people are talking about AI agents and like what's possible um and what you can build and businesses that you can build. But I thought that

when we spoke you had like kind of an interesting perspective of how you are actually using AI in kind of your frameworks but more so actually

even in your own businesses. Can you can you talk about that like what's kind of what's the value of AI today? Yeah.

Okay. So for AI it's going to be in everything we do, right? So think of it like how everyone uses social media.

It's just part of everyday life. So when

you're going on Twitter or YouTube, there are going to be a lot of people that say like it's the AI gold rush. You

need to start building apps and you know, go in the app store, right? You

know, vibe coding, which has its place.

Now, for the majority of people, especially those who want to be content creators, you don't have to make your own app, right? You don't need to make a software. It's it's kind of a different

software. It's it's kind of a different skill than being a really good content creator. Instead, what I actually

creator. Instead, what I actually recommend is start small to understand how to use AI. And it's really as simple as using Chat GBT to speed up whatever it is that you're doing. So if you're

trying to learn how to, you know, get your first thousand subscribers on YouTube, use Chat GBT as almost like a coach to analyze your videos, analyze your thumbnails, brainstorm ideas, write

the scripts, and speed up the process.

Now, where most people get it wrong is they think, oh, like I asked Chad JBT, they'll be like, "Write me a script on how to write a cold email." And they'll just come out with something, right? and

they use the script and they get no views. Why? It's really because they're

views. Why? It's really because they're not using it properly. They're relying

so much on AI to do the work that they forget to think. So, they have to have creative inputs and put it into like feed it into chat GBT and then your

output is going to be better, right? And

we can get into examples of that. But

the main thing is like use use AI whether it's chat GBT it doesn't matter what platform you use almost like a calculator you know like when you do math you use a calculator just speeds up the process that's what AI is now think

of it like a multiplier right so like if you get zero let's say 1* 3 is three right so but 0 * 3 is zero so if your inputs are not good AI will not save you

it just multiplies and improves what you have but if what you have is not good then it's like it's like trying to cook cook a good meal with bad ingredients.

You know, you know, I think it's um it's such a good point and it's interesting even just the timing of when you and I are speaking because I've recently come

to the same conclusion which is right now chat GPT and AI is like coaching me in different areas of my life. Um, and

to your point, I think even when we talk about like the speed at which someone can build a personal brand, it's like seeing chat GPT and AI as almost like

this ultimate accelerant. Like it's not going to build the thing for you today, but like it can really quickly accelerate the process of you actually

getting to the outcome you want. Yeah.

Can you just take us back for a second to before we get into the framework, what was the moment for you when you kind of had like that light bulb moment

of like, oh no, this is actually the right way that I should be using chat GPT right now is like the coaching aspect of it cuz I think for everyone

it's a bit of an adjustment actually learning the right way to use AI. Okay,

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back into the episode. Yeah, I mean coaching is probably one of the best use case like right now in 2025 because it's it's just so simple, right? It doesn't

require any knowledge of anything. So, I

actually started using Chachi PT as a coach when I actually got hurt in uh boxing. So, basically, I was sparring

boxing. So, basically, I was sparring and then um like I just like popped my shoulder. It like hurt really bad,

shoulder. It like hurt really bad, right? And it wasn't because I got hit.

right? And it wasn't because I got hit.

It was because I hit the other guy and then I hurt myself. So, my coach told me certain things. He said like, "Oh, you

certain things. He said like, "Oh, you know, this happened because XYZ, right?"

And I felt like it's probably partially right, but I think there's more to the story. So then I ran the, you know, the

story. So then I ran the, you know, the video of me getting hurt because we recorded on the iPhone into ChatGBT and I said, "Okay, like this is what happened. This is where it hurts. I

happened. This is where it hurts. I

don't know what's wrong. What do you think?" And then it basically said like

think?" And then it basically said like number one, um, your posture is really not good. I was like, "Oh, that's

not good. I was like, "Oh, that's interesting." Because that's something

interesting." Because that's something I'm I'm actively working on. And so

because my posture is not good, certain parts of my back are weak. And that part is actually responsible for retracting the arm after you punch. So I got hurt

on the retraction. Now like how would I know that if I'm not an expert in boxing or you know that's why I have a coach, right? But if my coach couldn't catch

right? But if my coach couldn't catch it, who will? So then I would be doing the wrong trainings, the wrong exercises, not addressing my back and only addressing my shoulder when actually the problem is caused from the

back. So once I had that moment, that

back. So once I had that moment, that click of like, wow, like I can literally run anything through TAG EBT, whether it's my YouTube videos or things in my

personal life, then I then I, you know, really understood the use case. So

nowadays, it's like if I want to learn about a subject, like sometimes I don't even need to read a book about it. I'll

just talk to Shhat GBT for like four hours about a specific subject and it will tell me everything I need to know, you know, and um yeah, that's it's uh it's beautiful, you know, like you don't have to go on Google, you don't have to

watch a million YouTube videos, you can just like get the answers like right there. Yeah. You know what? Um let's

there. Yeah. You know what? Um let's

let's get into the framework and I think people are going to start to see kind of how AI actually fits directly into the steps. So, I want to start with step

steps. So, I want to start with step one, create your offer. And and this is something that I heard you I heard you say in a video. You said, "If you're in

the beginning stages, the first thing I actually recommend is that you find a business idea." So, it's not even

business idea." So, it's not even building a personal brand yet. It's

understanding what you're going to sell.

Can can you talk about that? Like why?

Cuz I think most of the time when people think about personal brand, they think content first. you you said actually no,

content first. you you said actually no, you want to start with your offer first.

What what makes you say that? Yeah. So,

um so I'm coining this term called uh create to sell. Okay. So, what what is that exactly? It's content is not fun if

that exactly? It's content is not fun if you're not making money. You're going to burn out. So, the only way to make it

burn out. So, the only way to make it worth it for you is to actually get a reward, right? And that's making money.

reward, right? And that's making money.

So, instead of saying like, "Oh, my niche is travel, so I'm going to make a bunch of travel videos and hopefully one day a sponsor is going to come and sponsor my channel." What if they never come? So instead, what you do is not

come? So instead, what you do is not rely on other people to, you know, pay for advertising basically on your channel. You need to create your own

channel. You need to create your own offer because then you take all the profit, right? Like if someone's willing

profit, right? Like if someone's willing to pay you money for a sponsorship, they're probably making more money on you, right? That's you're basically just

you, right? That's you're basically just an expense like, right, you're like an ad. But if you're selling it yourself,

ad. But if you're selling it yourself, you can maximize your revenue. So an

offer basically, it's just answering two questions. and that is what are you

questions. and that is what are you selling and who are you selling it to?

This is extremely important because it will dictate what type of content you're going to make to attract this certain type of person. So the first thing is okay, what are we selling? Are we

selling a course, coaching, consulting, social media marketing services, right?

You just need to be clear on what it is you want to sell. Do you want to be the agency? Do you want to just sell your

agency? Do you want to just sell your expertise and what's in your head?

Because that will influence the content.

So, let's say you're like, "Okay, I have experience in sales. I want to coach people in sales." That's what I did in the beginning. So, we know what we're

the beginning. So, we know what we're selling. We're selling probably online

selling. We're selling probably online courses. It's really scalable coaching,

courses. It's really scalable coaching, you know, one-on-one time with me. Okay,

cool. Now, who are we selling it to? Who

would be in the audience for this? And

the two questions to figure it out is who's able and willing to spend money on this? Because, you know, if you're

this? Because, you know, if you're charging high ticket, 2 to 5K, let's call it, and you're selling to people that just don't have the money, don't make the content for them. They're never

going to be able to afford it even if they want to. So, you you think about like, okay, like who would be willing to pay for coaching services? Probably

people who have a job as a teacher and maybe they want to transition into sales. Maybe they have some money saved

sales. Maybe they have some money saved up and you're going to sell it to them.

Or maybe they're a struggling sales rep who have a salary and they're willing to invest necessarily into your coaching program. Or maybe it's a company that

program. Or maybe it's a company that has 10 sales reps and they're willing to pay you for coaching services to train their whole team, right? But you have to be specific on who this who is. And once

that's clear, you just put a price to it, right? So if your price is like,

it, right? So if your price is like, let's say 3K for, you know, a coaching offer, cool. So then then you can simply

offer, cool. So then then you can simply say in one sentence, I'm a coach. I help

people break into tech sales and I charge 3K. Simple, right? It's it's

charge 3K. Simple, right? It's it's

literally that simple. But where most people get it wrong is they're not really tapping into who they are to create their offer. They'll look at the market and be like, "Oh, that guy selling this thing. I want to copy it.

It doesn't work because you're not them.

You don't have their experience." Right?

So, why did I start with tech sales?

Because I was a tech sales rep, right?

So, if if I created an offer of like, I'm going to help you become an accountant. Yeah, I could try it, but

accountant. Yeah, I could try it, but what's my credibility? Nothing. And so

you got to like really tap in your past experiences and integrate it into the offer itself. Does that make sense?

offer itself. Does that make sense?

Yeah. No, that's that that's so good.

You know, I I I want to go deeper here because I think one of the problems we just have as a society in general right now, specifically also as entrepreneurs,

there's almost too many options. And and

so here's what I mean here. You you said the first thing that you have to decide is like what are you going to sell? I'm

just going to give a few different types of offers that people theoretically could do. So, and there's eight of them.

could do. So, and there's eight of them.

You could do an online course, could do online membership, affiliate marketing, consulting either in a group or a one-to-one, you could build an agency,

you could do in-person or virtual training or service. You could build a SAS business. Or you could build an

SAS business. Or you could build an e-commerce company. That is just eight

e-commerce company. That is just eight examples. there's like a litany of other

examples. there's like a litany of other ones that people are doing on the internet and seemingly successful with.

And so I think people and maybe the person watching at home, it's like there's almost like um it's like the choice paradox like there's so many options that you end up in this cycle of

either you just can't make a decision or you start with one business model and then as soon as it gets difficult you're actually like okay actually let me change to the agency thing and then let me go back to the coaching and like so

I'm curious when you're working with people how do you help them kind of or advise them to get clarity on this is the one thing that I'm going to focus on and

it's going to be my offer. Like how does someone get to that point?

Okay so I I'll be real with you, right? So this

is how the industry thinks, right? It's

not just me, it's everybody. Everybody

wants to make as much money as possible with doing the minimum amount of work, right? Like who wouldn't want that?

right? Like who wouldn't want that?

What's the opposite of that? Do the

maximum amount of work and make as little money as possible? Nobody wants

that, right? So obviously it's all it's it's what we all want right now then you start thinking okay what's the easiest way to do that like honestly right so if

you look at let's say selling like if you look at services for example well services can be cool but it depends on what service you provide if you're providing like marketing services you're going to have to scale with a team so

that means you have to build like a literal agency do you want to do that if yes and you want to build that marketing machine Right? But if you're like, I

machine Right? But if you're like, I don't really want to manage all those people. Then it's not the business for

people. Then it's not the business for you. Like literally, right? So, so then

you. Like literally, right? So, so then it's like, okay, like what if you sold coaching and consulting services? What

is that? You're just selling your time and selling your advice. That's like no work, right? You're literally just

work, right? You're literally just learning new stuff and teaching people things and they're paying you a bunch of money to like learn it, right? So,

that's really appealing to a lot of people coaching consulting because you're selling your knowledge. You're

not really doing work, right? It's like

you're doing brain work, but it's not laborious, right? So, that's why a lot

laborious, right? So, that's why a lot of people gravitate towards that. Now,

why do people do coach um courses? It's

because it's like the next evolution where instead of you going on a call to explain to somebody, they just watch a video. And courses are interesting

video. And courses are interesting because it's media. And media is one of those things where you can create it once and sell it forever, right? Like,

you know, if you're watching like um Toy Story, for example, they made it one time, they sell it forever, right? You

buy it on Apple and Amazon, whatever. So

a course is exactly the same thing. So

if you look at the motto of a lot of the biggest creators, what are they really doing? They're creating a course,

doing? They're creating a course, selling it to as many people as possible at the highest price point as possible that they're willing that they can get away with essentially. And then what they also do is they're like, "Okay,

courses by itself is not that cool anymore. So let's do some group

anymore. So let's do some group coaching. I'll come on once a week. I'll

coaching. I'll come on once a week. I'll

hire a couple people. They all come on once a week so that you know the people who buy the course get support." Right?

So right now that's kind of the meta courses plus a group coaching where no matter how many students join the program it's the same amount of work right they get that the course but they also get that personal touch and because

of that you're able to charge like thousands of dollars for these programs even though it's not that much work for the creator. So for me personally like

the creator. So for me personally like if you look at the creator economy that's why you see let's say u a gym trainer who's super popular he'll teach people how to grow on social media as a

gym trainer and be like me right that's why you see people who you know they maybe their niche is studying and then they just transition to here's how I got a million followers and how you can become a creator just like me why is it

everyone teaching like basically the dream of becoming a creator because number one it's like one of the fastest growing industries right now everybody wants to be a creator and number two, they probably realize that there's more

money to be made helping people become creators than there is doing the thing they were known for. And that's that's the truth. That's why a lot of these big

the truth. That's why a lot of these big creators, they transition into how to build a personal brand, how to like, you know, sell courses and stuff because it's so profitable and it's not it's

like easier work, right? Versus like,

hey, let me, you know, help you study or, you know, let me let me keep training you, right? It's like, why not just teach like teach people what they really want to know? And and that's that's kind of the truth, right? Um and

like when you look at the other models like affiliate marketing and SAS businesses, whatever, right? Everything

works. That's the truth. Everything

works. You just have to think about what works for you and how you want to live your life. And for a lot of people who

your life. And for a lot of people who love content creation, what they want to do, you know, after talking to so many people, what they truly want is this.

They want to spend their days making content and print money and make money while they sleep. That's what they want to do. They don't want to deal with a

to do. They don't want to deal with a sales team. They don't want to deal with

sales team. They don't want to deal with like um all the headaches of operational stuff. They don't want to deal with a

stuff. They don't want to deal with a bunch of clients. They just want to make content and print money. That's the

actual truth, right? So, and you know, you can hire other people to outsource different things, but at the end of the day, the creator is the face of the brand. And um the highest leverage also

brand. And um the highest leverage also for the creator is to be the face. You

know, if you look at all the big creators, you know, they outsource their sales, you know, like they outsource like everything, right? When you really get into the industry and you dig deep, they're not doing it by themselves. they

just play a role which is to be the public facing person. Yeah. Yeah. You

know what what what you actually said what you just said is so key and I even remember it in my story when I had this realization because similar to your

story when I started out um my first company that I ever tried to start was like a clothing business and it was like a dramatic failure. Um but

systematically over the next six, seven years, I probably tried every single uh like business model, I tried every single thing. And you start to realize

single thing. And you start to realize and the reason I tried every single thing is because I was looking to the outside world and like seeing what was working for other people and then trying

to replicate it. And it never worked.

The thing that worked was figuring out who I am and like what works specifically for me and then going all in on that. And that's obviously this

show and what it's become. And it's

there's something that you mention which I love which is Icky guy. And you

even said this. You said the best way to actually find your business idea is using the icky guy. what you love, what the world needs, what you can be paid

for, and what you're actually good at.

Can Can you just cuz I'm I'm sure for some people this is the first time they've even heard that term. Can you

just explain what that means? What does

icky guy mean? Okay, so I'll give you the the easy way to understand it, right? The thing is if you do a business

right? The thing is if you do a business where you don't enjoy it, it's not fun.

Then you just make money to make money, right? So it's basically a job and you

right? So it's basically a job and you don't want to end like you became an entrepreneur to like enjoy your life, not to put yourself in the prison. So

you need to find something that you enjoy and also makes money and something you're actually good at because if you're not good at it, who's going to pay you, right? So you just combine all

these things together. Now the key to actually making this work is you need to understand what industries and markets actually make money. So I would actually recommend looking at the money first,

then integrating your interests. So the

biggest industries that make money or when it comes to selling information at least like coaching, consulting courses, it's health, wealth, relationships, right? That's the key. People will pay a

right? That's the key. People will pay a lot of money for these things. So all

the gurus basically that teach you like how to make money, right? Um they're

teaching you wealth, how to make money.

So if you pay them $1,000, then you're expecting to learn something to make more than whatever you paid them. That's

the idea. relationships, you know, like there are a lot of guys that will pay a lot of money and girls too probably that um to fix that problem in their life, right? Like if you go to a club and

right? Like if you go to a club and you're buying bottles, what are you doing to why you doing it? To impress

other people for girls, right?

Basically, at the end of the day, that's what it is. So, people will pay money to impress the opposite sex. Now,

you know, health, it's like health is everything. Without health, like what's

everything. Without health, like what's one of money, right? So, that's why these things people will pay so much money for these industries. Now that you understand those industries, you need to figure out like with your unique skill

set, how are you going to make money?

So, if you're, let's say, you know, for me, I was a tech sales rep. My job is literally to make money or a company money by selling stuff. Other people

want this job. They want to make money.

So, if I taught people that skill, then they're good. But now, you have to

they're good. But now, you have to combine it with like, am I actually passionate about this? Well, for me, I am because I'm passionate about inspiring other people. So that's a easy like coaching consulting courses is an

easy fit for me because I enjoy helping other people become a better version of themselves, right? And I'm sure a lot of

themselves, right? And I'm sure a lot of people out there can resonate with that which is why they gravitate towards education because it feels good when you teach someone something, they do the work and they get the result and they their life changes forever, right?

That's beautiful. And but you have to be honest with yourself, you know, when you're finding these things. Like don't

say you're good at sales if you're not.

A lot of people have egos and they're like, "Oh, I'm actually good at this."

And they create content, put themselves out there, and nobody cares and they get slapped in the face by life pretty much.

And um that's that's when they give up actually, you know, when reality hits, right? And so that's why you got to like

right? And so that's why you got to like really be honest with yourself. Now,

when it comes to creating offers and your eeky guy and everything, yes, like focus on the money, but then now you might be thinking, okay, like how do you integrate your passions? The way I teach

it is you're not really going to find a specific model that really aligns with your passion directly. You have to add it as sauce like what what sauce is to a

steak, right? So let's say for me, I'm

steak, right? So let's say for me, I'm teaching people how to build a personal brand and monetize. Okay, but it's not like when I was 10 years old that was my passion, right? It's just a opportunity

passion, right? It's just a opportunity I stumbled upon and I thought it was interesting. So how do I how do I put

interesting. So how do I how do I put more me into it? It's by using the things that I'm actually interested in um and integrating into the content. So,

an example is let's say I'm Asian, Asian-American, I live in Asia, you know, I'm very savvy to like what's going on in like, you know, the anime world or Asian culture, right? So, you

know, if something's popular in South Korea or Japan, I'm pretty aware of it.

So, for these examples, let's say like, you know, Laboo, for example, is really popular. You know, Lisa from Blackping

popular. You know, Lisa from Blackping promoted it. she basically used her

promoted it. she basically used her personal brand to support a product and now it's blowing up, you know, I can use that example into my videos on how to build a personal brand because it's like

something that actually connects with me, you know, and um I'm aware of it and I bought my girlfriend a bunch of Laboos and I'm like pretty, you know, I've been to the stores, I know what's up, right?

So that's why it's unique. Whereas

another person, if they grew up in, I don't know, like uh Texas or something and they love motocross and shooting guns, I'm sure they would use another

example that relates to their interests, right? And so, you know, you have to use

right? And so, you know, you have to use your hobbies and integrate it into your content, right? So, like for me, what do

content, right? So, like for me, what do I like? I like, you know, Asian culture.

I like? I like, you know, Asian culture.

I like anime. I like Muay Thai. I'm

training with a like a world like a not world champion, but national champion in Vietnam here and I'm like really taking it serious. So, it's like, how do I So,

it serious. So, it's like, how do I So, it's for me, it's like, how do I take these Muay Thai lessons and integrate it into my content about building a personal brand? How do I use, you know,

personal brand? How do I use, you know, the sick clips of me kicking and using my elbows into my B-roll and like, you know, locking in, right? Like, for

example, I could do it like that. So,

that's how you actually like make your content interesting in a way where nobody can copy you because the only way they can copy you is literally live the same life as you. And nobody can do that unless they're just like faking it, you

know?

Okay. Okay. So, it's almost like you want to and and I like the way that you you kind of laid it out is you want to start high level which is like where are the areas where people where there's

interest and like for most human beings I think every human being we have a fundamental core desire and craving to understand health wealth and

relationships like at for every person at some point in their life there's been a moment where like that's been a strong desire for them is to see some sort of improvement in those areas. And then

once you find that and you kind of find your place within it, it's like then you can actually start integrating

these personal interests um and stories from your own life into the content. So, it's actually one of

the content. So, it's actually one of one and differentiated and unique and not just I don't know like another one of these influencers or business people

that you see online. It's actually your own. Yeah. Yeah. And you know the the

own. Yeah. Yeah. And you know the the key to making this work is you have to showcase your hobbies and interests that make money. So, you have to be very

make money. So, you have to be very strategic about it, right? So, let's say Pokemon cards is very popular right now, right? People want to use it as an

right? People want to use it as an alternative investment. You know, you

alternative investment. You know, you see FaZe Clan doing Twitch streams with like they just buy a bunch of packs and they just keep opening it, right? And it

gets it gets views. So, if I talk about Pokemon cards and I use it as an example, which I do, I know people are going to be positively receptive to it because Pokemon is cool right now,

right? Now, if I talked about, you know,

right? Now, if I talked about, you know, like a not as popular trading card game like Digimon or Magic the Gathering, I'm going to look like a dork because it's not cool right now, right? So, I'm not going to talk about those things. And

I'm also not interested in those things, by the way. But you see, you strategically pick your topics. So yeah, it feels effortless, but you should actually know that like if you're going to talk about

your hobbies, it needs to make you look better. It needs to increase your status

better. It needs to increase your status in the social world, right? And a lot of people are going to be like, "Oh no, that's being fake." Like just be yourself. Like being your like your true

yourself. Like being your like your true true authentic self doesn't always pay the bills, you know? It's like some people literally just don't care that you know you're into this weird thing.

They just don't. Or or maybe it will make you look bad. Now, could you always spin it in a positive way? Yeah. But

most people don't even have the experience to do that. Like if you're starting out from zero, right? Like if

you're not talking about things that are popular, then how you going to ride the trend? So let's let's say Muay Thai for

trend? So let's let's say Muay Thai for example, right? Um I know for a lot of

example, right? Um I know for a lot of people in my space, they all do boxing.

Okay, that's like they you know, they try to like, oh, I'm tough, I'm a fighter, whatever. They train in boxing.

fighter, whatever. They train in boxing.

No, nobody really trains in Muay Thai, you know, in the personal brand like info kind of space. So, I will be one of the only people doing it. I live in Asia. I'm Asian and doing Muay Thai

Asia. I'm Asian and doing Muay Thai using my elbows and kicks and knees. So,

when I put out sick videos like that out for my particular demographic, it's going to look really cool because I'm riding off the back of one championship who is, you know, basically a competitor

to UFC and they're really pushing Muay Thai. Even the top USC fighters like um

Thai. Even the top USC fighters like um like Jon Jones or style bender is Israel Adisagna, right? They use Muay Thai as

Adisagna, right? They use Muay Thai as well. So I see that trend and I know

well. So I see that trend and I know people love the elbows. They love the sub back kicks. They love the knees. So

when I think about okay, like if I'm going to make a video about daily daily life of, you know, entrepreneur living in Asia, I'm going to use clips of me doing the highlights, you know, and like showing those pieces and that's going to

be different because you like how you you can't fake it. You have to like actually learn it. Yeah. you're not

going to pretend to do like a elbow, right? So, it's like you have to be

right? So, it's like you have to be strategic. And the the best part is I

strategic. And the the best part is I think this is where most people get it wrong with the hobbies. They do things to kind of distract themselves to escape

from reality. But what they should do is

from reality. But what they should do is redefine and repick their hobbies that actually benefit their lives. So, if you love going to the gym, well, obviously

that's going to make you look good and more attractive. So, like that's a hobby

more attractive. So, like that's a hobby you should pick up. If you like to fight, yeah, that's an attractive thing because people know that like they can't mess with you and you could defend people if you really needed to. But if

you're like, "Oh, I'm really into, I don't know, like just any random hobby that you know, it just doesn't make you look good." Then

look good." Then what's the point of doing it if it doesn't your life your life, right? So,

yeah, I think that's that's the key.

Like, you can redefine who you are actually. Yeah. You know what I I was

actually. Yeah. You know what I I was thinking as you were talking because I think it's such a good way to think about it and it's simple is like you almost take a piece of paper and you can

just draw like two circles and it's like one of them is like what is the world interested in like where where is like even when you're on YouTube or when

you're on Instagram or any of these social platforms what are the trends in like topics and content that you're seeing like there's just a spike for them like there's just a ton of

interest. So like that's one circle and

interest. So like that's one circle and then it's like another circle is your interests. Like to your point the things

interests. Like to your point the things in your life like things that you're doing that add value and then in between those circles there will be an overlap where there's like the world's

interested in this thing and it also intersects with like my uh personal interests and that's the personal kind of that's almost like the personal part

of the personal brand. It's like that's the that's the thing that you can focus on and it will kind of you'll be able to get engagement. It'll also be

get engagement. It'll also be interesting for you to create so you'll be able to do it for a long amount of time. Um it kind of feels like there's

time. Um it kind of feels like there's like a very intentional intersection there. Yeah. It's it's like um I think

there. Yeah. It's it's like um I think of it like it's not about like what you do sometimes, it's the way you do it, you know? Like it's the like for me like

you know? Like it's the like for me like like sales when I started wasn't cool.

So when I started learning sales, my goal was to somehow make it cool, you know, for myself, right? Because like

when I got a sales job, everyone was like, like why would you do sales? So I

had to like convince myself in my head, no, like they're wrong. Sales is like the coolest occupation. Like you're

literally like, you know, you know, like you persuade people to do anything, right? So it's it's just the way you do

right? So it's it's just the way you do it. Like I can make accounting cool if I

it. Like I can make accounting cool if I really wanted to, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

You know what? Let's um here's what I want to do quickly. I think it'll be fun for people because I think sometimes I think about what you said with the icky guy. You said it's what you love, what

guy. You said it's what you love, what the world needs, what you can be paid for, and what you're actually good at.

And one of the things you said with AI is like one of the most powerful applications of AI today is actually to be your coach and to like help you through and guide these reflections that

you're having so that you can get to the right answer faster. And so I'm curious for you, have you kind of is there

almost a way that people can use AI and chat GPT in order to figure out those kind of two central questions of like

first of all their icky guy and then also like their dream customer like who's the person that I should be selling to? Yeah. I mean I can you can

selling to? Yeah. I mean I can you can share your screen and we can go through it. Yeah. Yeah. Let me let me give you

it. Yeah. Yeah. Let me let me give you an example of this. Um, all right. So,

sharing screen. Uh, I'm going to share my entire screen.

Okay. Let me see if that works. Okay.

All right. You see my screen? Okay.

Yeah. All right. Cool. So, what we're going to do is um I'm going to give you an example of how to use your Eek guy by using ChatgBT. It's so simple, right?

using ChatgBT. It's so simple, right?

Basically, you open your chat GBT, you press this button right here, you start talking. You don't even you even have to

talking. You don't even you even have to type. So let's say,

type. So let's say, hey JTBD, uh, you are a eeky guy expert and I need help figuring out my eeky guy. I want to make money online and so

guy. I want to make money online and so I want to align all these things together. So what I love, what I'm good

together. So what I love, what I'm good at, uh, what I'm passionate about, and um, what the world needs. So I love

anime. I love gaming. I love Muay Thai.

anime. I love gaming. I love Muay Thai.

I love helping people, inspiring them. I

love teaching. I'm good at teaching people. I'm good at recognizing trends.

people. I'm good at recognizing trends.

Um I'm good I I want to make content, but I'm not good at it. But I think I can be good at it. And um I'm good at giving advice. Now the world needs I

giving advice. Now the world needs I guess they need smart people. I maybe

they need good advice. Maybe I can figure out how to take my passions in I don't know anime and and like collectibles and you know teach people something in that or maybe help

companies. I'm not sure. And um what can

companies. I'm not sure. And um what can I be paid for? I suppose I can get paid for consulting, um selling an online course, coaching people, uh creating content, getting

sponsors. Uh I'm kind of feeling the

sponsors. Uh I'm kind of feeling the idea of like teaching people something in collectibles because I know it's like a big alternative investment kind of thing. So based on these things that I'm

thing. So based on these things that I'm giving you now, help me figure out my eeky guy, give me the top three options and also help me figure out like if I

were to have clients, how much can I charge and could I charge high ticket?

So now this is this is you know literally what I do you know um I just talk to JBT use the voice feature and the key is you have to prompt it right like I'm giving it very specific details

on who it is and what I actually need.

So breaking it down like strategies.

Okay. Go ahead. Ju just quickly one thing like because this was so impactful for me. I think one of the things is um

for me. I think one of the things is um I want people to notice how like almost unpolished and off the top of your head

that whole thing was like when you when you're speaking with chat GPT it's not it's not like Google where you need to give it like this oneline thing of what you're looking for. It's like you can

actually first of all speaking into chat GPT is like a a game changer and like a like almost like a secret like it makes the process way faster but then also just the way that you kind of reflected

and kind of just brain dumped. It's

literally what I' I've been doing like these last few weeks. It's like I'll just brain dump into chat GPT and it's able to give you these great insights.

So I I just wanted to give people that.

Yeah. Like literally just dump all the ideas. It will synthesize all the

ideas. It will synthesize all the information for you. So as you can see here, it kind of tells me like okay like these are the things you love. So it'll

essentially restate what it g what you gave it and then so let's see what it came up with. So top three eeky guy business concept the collector collectibles mentor. Okay. So anime

collectibles mentor. Okay. So anime

gaming trend spotting teaching and investing. All right. Well how are we

investing. All right. Well how are we going to make money doing that? So you

teach people how to invest in anime gaming and collectible assets not just for nostalgia but for alternative wealth. Pokemon cards, Magic Gathering,

wealth. Pokemon cards, Magic Gathering, figurines. So, they're recommending like

figurines. So, they're recommending like I can do a course, I can do a coaching, sponsorships, affiliate. So, ideal

sponsorships, affiliate. So, ideal avatar 25 to 40 nostalgic nerds with uh disposable income. True. Because I know

disposable income. True. Because I know a lot of my friends, they collect Pokemon cards and they spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars on this stuff.

Uh, Crypto Bros. Yeah, that's true. Um

I'm pretty deep in crypto and you know a lot of people that you know used to collect NFTs they love collecting like um Pokemon cards and like statues and stuff pairing assets for the kids. Yeah,

I can see that. So this is really interesting because it's true. Like if I started a YouTube channel specifically on like the the things that you should buy that are going to go up in

investments for alternative investable investable stuff. Like there are people

investable stuff. Like there are people that will literally be they will allocate 5% of their investment portfolio on fun stuff whether it's paintings, you know, bare bricks, you know, anime figurines. Like it's a big

industry. Like anime itself is like a

industry. Like anime itself is like a multi-billion dollar like 50 bill industry plus and growing and a lot of the money is made on merch, right? So

that's that's that's like a real thing.

Like you can dedicate your life to this for the rest of your life and it's actually your hobby. And would people, you might be thinking like, oh, like would people pay $2,000 for this? Yeah,

they would because they're making money if they make the right investments, right? If they allocate 5% of their

right? If they allocate 5% of their portfolio. So, like that's just like a

portfolio. So, like that's just like a it's a realistic example of how do you how do you actually find an eeky guy?

So, what do you what do you think about that so far before I go into others?

Yeah. You know, I I I love this cuz this is literally what I'm experiencing right now. Um, like the the way that I'm using

now. Um, like the the way that I'm using chatbt and it's very similar to what you just demonstrated. So, I want to make

just demonstrated. So, I want to make sure that people uh can key in on it, which is you brain dump into it. That's

like the first step. And and you can do it with voice so it's quicker. It will

then give you a response. What I do personally, similar to what you just did, I'll like start skimm reading cuz it gives you quite a lot. So, I'll start skimm reading through the response and

almost just like instinctually there's certain things that like grab your attention. So obviously for us it's

attention. So obviously for us it's given three options. As people are like reading through their options, there will be a certain thing that it just

like it speaks to you personally a bit more than all of the like the other two options. And that's usually when like

options. And that's usually when like I'll start to key in. And the thing that's great about the prompt that you gave is not only does it give you kind of like the offer and like even the

desire and the pain point of the audience, it then gives you the client avatar, which is like I think I remember we we did an episode

with um Myron Golden um who's like super successful in sales and he has this quote which I think is so good. He says um if you obsess over

so good. He says um if you obsess over people's problems and how to solve them, they will obsess over paying you. And so

like I started to understand like the whole game of business is actually really just understanding that ideal customer avatar and like what are the

specific problems that they have and then how can you solve them. And if you can become the best or one of the best at that and like understanding that and

how to communicate it, you will succeed in your business. And so to the point you said earlier, it's like it makes that process of you getting there

like how much time like I just think to myself like how much time in research and whatnot would it have taken if we did all of this independently and we've just done it in five I don't even know

if it's 5 minutes like 2 3 minutes.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's uh dude it's it's crazy, you know, like when I work with my clients, I literally just have them fill out a worksheet and I I'm like, "All right, give me a sec. I'm

going to run it through AI." Then I run it through AI, get a couple examples, and I'll think about it to make sure like the idea makes sense for them. And

then once I check all the boxes, I'm like, "Okay, like there's no guarantee of success, but this is the direction I think you should go based on everything I know about you and based on what I know about the market." And that's how

people are able to get like the result in like two weeks because most people they just don't know like they get so lost like I don't know what to do like I feel paralyzed I have to talk to clients and or like they'll be like oh I need to

do interviews and talk to potential clients but they never do any work right um but then when you go through this process it's like your chance of hitting is way higher because what AI is able to do is it references how other people are

already making money and then you can pull from that right it's like you're not reinventing the wheel right Like the example we gave was about you know helping people invest into alternative

investments. People have been doing that

investments. People have been doing that for years but now it's just like understanding the supply and demand of it. There's not enough creators in that

it. There's not enough creators in that space. You can be that creator, right?

space. You can be that creator, right?

And and by having that confidence in like expert advice give telling you which direction to go. It just makes that process so much easier. So it's

it's like especially when it comes to building a personal brand. It's not that it takes a long time to do. It takes a long time to get good enough for people to notice you because if you're really

good off the bat and you knew how to do all the cameras and you were a great personality and you knew what you were talking about, you're blowing up your first like 3 months because you are

actually good. So yeah, man, AI is um

actually good. So yeah, man, AI is um game changer. Like people like they're

game changer. Like people like they're sleep like the world is sleeping on this, you know? Like they don't understand. Like if someone said, "Hey,

understand. Like if someone said, "Hey, I have a magical tool that anything you do in your life, you can do it five times faster. It only costs 20 bucks a

times faster. It only costs 20 bucks a month." That's crazy. But that's what it

month." That's crazy. But that's what it really is truthfully. Yeah. And and it's like for most people even because what you said is exactly correct. For most

people like you can even just start with the free version of Chachi PT. like you

you can literally get like and they're not even sponsoring this episode, you know, like I really should have I should have open AI. It's like I should be getting something from this. But it's

it's genuinely been my experience and the the thing that's that's really helped with for me as well with um kind of reflecting to chat GPT sometimes back to what I was saying about we have so

many options today. It's like you can get in a paralysis of choosing between options. I find that it kind of it helps

options. I find that it kind of it helps because as you keep using chatbt, especially if you use the paid version because it has memory, it will actually

start to kind of like learn you and so it can help you actually make the decision. Like it can help you based on

decision. Like it can help you based on what it knows about you and like your goals, your vision, where you want to end up, like all of this context that it's learned over time through your

brain dumps. it can help you make the

brain dumps. it can help you make the decision of like and I and I think that's a key part of it is oh this is the offer I'm going to go all in on and

then you actually stick to it for the next like 60 90 days beyond and so even when we get into the other steps in the framework like that's a key part of it

is you actually stuck to the thing for a certain amount of time and gave it time to work and I think so often like we pivot back to something now. So, we

change midway through. It's like you're not giving it enough time that your your business could ever succeed. Yeah. It's

it's crazy cuz um even so I use it all the time to make content, right? Whether

it's my YouTube scripts or LinkedIn posts, stuff like that. And the thing is when you train chat GBT the right way, it stops sounding like AI. So people

don't understand like the intros that I do for my videos a lot of times it's like me just brain dumping an idea and then chatbt will like write it word for word and that's the script for the first

minute word for word literally so like and nobody can know nobody knows they just think I'm like freestyling it or talking or whatever but it's like literally chatbt like 90% of the way for the intros and the intros are the most

important in the YouTube video right so once it knows you your offer your ideal customer their pain points it becomes so much more powerful. Yeah. Huge. You know

what? you know, let's let's I want to do another I want to do another quick experiment with uh chatvt and maybe we can just like freestyle this uh together

in lifetime for people because I think so let's even say the the alternative investment like idea like let's just say

in this uh example scenario that's the one that like as you're skimming through chatbt we're like that's the one that speaks to me that's the one that I want

to do we choose that I want to that process ess and I remember learning this from Alex Hoszi. He talks about like the grand slam offer which is like how do

you come up with like that one sentence two sentence like that irresistible offer that someone that your dream customer would almost feel stupid saying

no to like it's a no-brainer. And so I'm curious actually how chat GPT could kind of help us get to that level

of clarity of like, okay, I know this is the world that I want to operate in and I know that this is my icky guy. How do

I actually get the specific grand slam offer that like I can then like build everything else around? Okay, let's

let's get into that. So, I'll share my screen again and then what we're going to do. Yeah, let's do it is um let's get

to do. Yeah, let's do it is um let's get into right here. Okay, so I'm going to go with number one, the collectibles mentor. Now, let's uh this is how I

mentor. Now, let's uh this is how I would do it in freestyle. Okay, so I like the eeky guy number one, the collectibles mentor. Now, what I need is

collectibles mentor. Now, what I need is to build a grand slam offer. And when I say grand slam offer, I mean an offer that really taps into the, you know, fears and uncertainties of my ideal

customer, which you laid out, which is 25 to 40 years old, you know, nostalgic nerds with a lot of disposable income who want to use this as alternative investments, like Pokemon cards and things of that nature. So, for the

offer, I'm thinking of selling something 2 to 5K. Let's just stick with one for now. I want to do um I'm thinking about

now. I want to do um I'm thinking about doing coaching, maybe a course that comes with it, teaching them how to maybe, you know, invest in these collectibles. So, you know, top of my

collectibles. So, you know, top of my head, it's like I know that they need help. They need need a lot of

help. They need need a lot of handholding. Um and they don't want to

handholding. Um and they don't want to think too much. In a way, I kind of feel like they want to they want to trust me to like basically make their picks in a sense, but I want to also show them that how to think for themselves so they

don't 100% rely on me. So, help me figure out an offer that hits these pain points and something that is realistic and someone would actually pay 2 to 5K for. Also, search the entire internet to

for. Also, search the entire internet to see if anyone else is selling an offer like this. Analyze their entire offer,

like this. Analyze their entire offer, their price points, what they're getting, whether it's a course, coaching, mentoring, group coaching, uh what whatever the resources are. Compile

it all together. So take the top of the top 1% of anyone who is doing this kind of niche, put that offer together, combine it with like my personal

interest in, you know, these anime gaming, you know, collectibles, and then let's create that grand slam offer. Now,

let's create three versions of this just in case the first one doesn't hit. And

let's run it.

All right. So that's that's pretty much Yeah, go for two things that you do that I I really love and I'm going to take even for myself. So one um and I was aware I was aware of this but like the

ability for chatbt to do like deep research on the internet and like just take from basically scouring the entire like net

what whatever information and like pull different sources I think is super underrated. And then also the thing that

underrated. And then also the thing that you did right at the end which is and you did it with the first prompt as well. You always ask for three options

well. You always ask for three options like I I I've noticed that you always asked for three options. Can you even before we get to this like can you talk through like why why is it that in your prompts you tend to ask for multiple

options at the end? What's the value of that? Yeah, I mean realistically it

that? Yeah, I mean realistically it won't get it on the first try usually.

So I've learned that you need to just keep running it sometimes. It's kind of like AB testing, right? Until you find like a a vein or a pocket that sounds good. And then sometimes you AB test the

good. And then sometimes you AB test the idea, right? So like for example, if I

idea, right? So like for example, if I said like, oh, like, you know, option number one was really cool, you know, in a realistic sense, I would probably have it create three more options similar to

number one before I did the next step because like it brainstorms for you.

Like it literally thinks for you, right?

And it doesn't know like if this is going to be good or option two or three is going to be good. like it doesn't it can just shoot like it's it's like shooting a bunch of bullets and seeing which one hits and so you have to curate

so you know right now the way I think the best people use chat GBT is like to curate ideas in a sense you know um it's kind of like when I used to use a lot of midjourney it's like you would have to just keep running different ideas and

prompts until it hits something that felt really good and you create 10 versions of that thing you know it's like you have a good YouTube title and it slams and then like high clickthrough rate create 10 versions of that and

let's AB test it see which one's the best, right? Make sense?

best, right? Make sense?

And also, one one thing that's super important is like um tragic is almost like having like the ultimate brain, like the ultimate genius engine sitting

next to you. And I think one of the things that you did well in your prompt as well is you actually kind of guided chat GPT.

Like you said the parts of its previous response that you liked. Like you said, like I I like what you mentioned around like the master like the collectibles

investor and like these parts of the uh customer avatar like you're actually guiding it so that it can give you a more like narrow focused answer. I want

to make sure that people like people get that. Yeah. Yeah. Like the deeper you

that. Yeah. Yeah. Like the deeper you go, the less it sounds like AI, right?

That's why like nobody goes that deep.

Um they only ask it one thing. Whatever

it spits out, that's what they use. So

when you go deeper, you get these like crazy answers that feel very humanlike because the research, the context required is is just so deep. So getting

into this example, you know, like here's an insight, right? There are no dominant high ticket offers for this kind of thing right now. That's interesting. So

like if you did this, would you be the only one? And do you want to be the only

only one? And do you want to be the only one? Because if no one's doing it, that

one? Because if no one's doing it, that also could be a sign that maybe people aren't willing to invest that much money into that, right? So, it could be a pro and a con, but you have to do a little bit more deeper research. But you see from here, you know, there's going to be

like a lot of low ticket communities.

And when I say low ticket, it just means like cheaper price points. Like maybe

it's $14, you know, $49 a month. Maybe

that works better because there's maybe you go for volume versus high ticket, right? So, I'm not saying like high

right? So, I'm not saying like high ticket is the end all beall. It's not.

It's just easier to make money from like if you want to make 10K a month, it's easier to get like five clients at 2K each than it is to get a bunch at $100.

you know what I mean? Um, but yeah, man.

Like that's that's essentially what I would do. So, when I look at this, I

would do. So, when I look at this, I would have to make the decision of like, okay, like do I want to go low ticket or do I want to go higher ticket? Higher

ticket might work, but I have to deal do more deeper research. Now, you're

appealing to investors, right? Like true

investors who have a lot of liquid um assets that you can liquid cash to buy stuff. Now, if you're going for the

stuff. Now, if you're going for the hobbyist, you're going to create a group. Maybe it's like a group on, you

group. Maybe it's like a group on, you know, on a platform and you're charging like, you know, $20 a month, right? Um,

both can work, but it just depends on who your audience is, right? So, we

haven't tapped into like the the content side of things, but essentially, you want to pick which model you want to do and then you make the content so you can sell whatever it is that you picked.

Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. I'm

curious, does it at the end, does it give us like a it actually gives us the offer? Yeah. So, like let's say we're

offer? Yeah. So, like let's say we're going premium, right? For 5K, you get a three-month hight touch coaching, uh, bi-weekly calls, private Slack, um, five

authenticated Pick starters. So, like I guess like it's almost like stock picks, uh, support through text. Yeah. So, this

is actually it's pretty legit in like if you change the word from like from collectibles to like premium personal brand coaching, it would probably look like this. You know what I mean? Like

like this. You know what I mean? Like

you're literally just swapping out the subject. But I can I can see this

subject. But I can I can see this working for people that are high net worth individuals that are willing to invest. Um

invest. Um now for the for the other ones it's like lower price ticket. Yeah. Just giving

like different examples, right? So like

2K, 3K, 5K. So give me different uh pricing options. Yeah. Okay. You know

pricing options. Yeah. Okay. You know

what? Awesome. Let let's let's move on cuz I'm sure that even a lot of the people listening, they have that clarity of like what their offer is. It's now a game of like, okay, I understand what my

offer is. I understand what I'm trying

offer is. I understand what I'm trying to sell. How do I get attention and

to sell. How do I get attention and people to care about buying this thing on the internet? And so I want to go to step two, which is lead generation. And

something that you said, you said if you want to make money as fast as possible, there are two there are only two things you need to focus on. Number one is how

people will discover you. Can you can you talk about that? Like for the person that feels completely stuck on like that discovery piece of it, they have the

clarity on what their offer is. What is

almost like step one of figuring of like getting people to actually care about what you're offering? So, let's make some assumptions to make it simple,

right? Let's say you wanted to sell

right? Let's say you wanted to sell something high ticket. Call it 2K to 5K.

Now, if you're selling something at this price point, most likely if you're starting out, you have to get them on the phone, right? Because I'm sure if you communicate it and like connect with them, you know, on a Google Meet and like connect with them on a human level,

you can really convince them to buy something even if your following is not big, right? So, the question truly is

big, right? So, the question truly is how many meetings can you get per month?

Because if you have a 100 meetings a month, I'm pretty sure you're going to figure out how to close somebody.

Because if they say no, you just ask them, okay, well, how come you don't want to buy? And they will tell you. And

then you'll say, okay, if I fix that, would you buy it? Yeah. Okay, then fix it. Done. Then you sold them, right? But

it. Done. Then you sold them, right? But

the problem most people have is they just don't get enough meetings. That's

actually the game. So when people think about personal brand, they glamorize the idea of becoming a creator so much that they forget the business aspect of it.

And the business aspect is how do we get them into a system, a monetization system to convert those attention into dollars, right? That's the whole point

dollars, right? That's the whole point of a personal brand. If you think about, let's say, Mr. Beast, what is he really good at? Gathering attention by doing

good at? Gathering attention by doing these crazy videos. How does he monetize? You know, festivals, you know,

monetize? You know, festivals, you know, he has a lunch brand, he has an agency, he has a, you know, a VC fund, right? He

has so many different ways to monetize.

So the key here is attention. How do you get attention? You can sell people on a

get attention? You can sell people on a call, in the DMs, you can do it on a landing page. It doesn't matter how you

landing page. It doesn't matter how you do it, but you still need their attention. So there's there's only two

attention. So there's there's only two ways to do it really. The first is creating content, and that is building your personal brand, right? Whether it's

YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram, you know, Tik Tok, it doesn't matter which platform you choose, you just need to choose the one where your ideal customer hangs out. So, if you're selling

hangs out. So, if you're selling something B2B, like um marketing services for software companies, clearly LinkedIn is going to be a really good place. But if you're selling, let's say,

place. But if you're selling, let's say, BTOC, where you're helping people, I don't know, become a digital nomad, right? Probably Instagram makes more

right? Probably Instagram makes more sense because it's more lifestyle. It's

more selling the dream. So, that's

that's how you kind of pick your platform. And essentially once you pick

platform. And essentially once you pick a platform you know and personally for me you know YouTube I think it's one of the biggest the best platforms just because like if you can make it on YouTube you can make it on any platform

you know it's the hardest one it's deeper it's long form and you could do short form and repurpose onto the other platforms. So that's why I like YouTube the most. Um but once you pick a

the most. Um but once you pick a platform really it's just creating content that agitates problems for your ideal customer. So this is why the offer

ideal customer. So this is why the offer is so important. You have to think what what would compel someone to buy your offer? What problems do they have? And

offer? What problems do they have? And

you take those problems and you put it into your video. You make the problems even bigger and then you kind of tease a solution. You know, you you give them

solution. You know, you you give them part of the solution to get them to want to watch and watch more videos. And

that's that's essentially how you build a following. Now, we could go deeper

a following. Now, we could go deeper into that, but you know, I'll let you like kind of comment on it and then you can steer the direction. Yeah. No, I I think that you're exactly correct. And

and I think that and I I remember like I said, we did this episode with Callaway a few weeks ago and one of the things that he said is that with AI and even the fact that AI is going to make it so

easy to create content is that a space that we already perceive as being incredibly saturated. Like most people

incredibly saturated. Like most people think about social media and making content, there's so many people doing it. That space is only going to get more

it. That space is only going to get more saturated.

So the key skill then becomes if there's so many different messengers and like people talking, how do you get the

people that you want to pay attention to you and like understanding that is going to be such a critical

component.

And so like I think that's like the the struggle for people is like okay maybe I've even posted a few times on LinkedIn or Instagram. I've done a few YouTube

or Instagram. I've done a few YouTube videos. Even for you and your story you

videos. Even for you and your story you were like I was doing YouTube videos for a whole year and it was still like this struggle to actually get a repeatable

number of like volume of people to pay attention to your stuff. And ultimately

you figured it out because like you mentioned you have 300 over 300,000 subscribers on YouTube. But I'm curious from your story.

What is that moment when you kind of started to understand these are the key things that when it comes to content it actually makes

people pay attention and get value from what you're doing and then like want to come back again and watch your next video. like can you just from a from a

video. like can you just from a from a creation standpoint, how do you get people to care? Yeah. So, I'm going to

reference uh Seth Goden here. He has

this book called The Purple Cow. And the

concept is basically if you're driving on the road and all the cows are, you know, black and white and then you just see a purple one, you're going to be like, "Wait, what? Like, what is what is that?" You like turn your head and maybe

that?" You like turn your head and maybe stop on the side of the road to see what's going on, right? So the key to win in a saturated world is that you have to be different. Now a couple

things I want to talk about before I dive into that. Number one,

don't believe that the entire market's saturated. It's just starting. Every

saturated. It's just starting. Every

single niche you think that it's saturated. It's really not because the

saturated. It's really not because the amount of like amount of people spending money on creators is going to like like is going to like double in the next couple of years. So like think about that. the entire market's going to

that. the entire market's going to double like really soon. So, how can you say it's saturated when we're going to double and probably triple and quadruple and it's going to keep going up? Right?

So, get that out of your head because that that is a limiting belief now. How do you actually stand out in

now. How do you actually stand out in the current market? Right? Now, the

thing is the technique that I personally use is you look at the market and you can use chatb to help you out with this, but you look at the market and you see what everyone's doing. Everyone's

copying each other, right? And you have to understand it's not about the message, it's the messenger. So it's not about what you're saying, it's how you package it. And packaging is just your

package it. And packaging is just your vibe, your aesthetic, your creative direction, the hooks, the titles, the thumbnails. These are the things that

thumbnails. These are the things that are people, you know, are going to care about.

And then you just do something different and sometimes the opposite, right? And

you just do it in a unique way. So let's

say for me, when I started in sales, like teaching people sales, what was my unique advantage? it was that majority

unique advantage? it was that majority of the people teaching sales at the time were a lot older. A lot of time they were Caucasian and they're not relatable to a lot of the demographic of the world. So when I'm a younger Asian guy

world. So when I'm a younger Asian guy who understands tech sales and startup high velocity stuff and it's not like I was a sales rep 20 years ago, it's like I just got out of it. It's fresh. It's

new. It's different. And that's why a lot of younger people, they gravitated towards me because if they're a young person that just graduated college and they're trying to get a job at Salesforce or Oracle or something like

this at the time, I was like one of the only few few people you can go to. So I

was different in the world of sales, but there were a lot of sales people at the time. So you find a little pocket,

time. So you find a little pocket, right? So that that was my advantage. I

right? So that that was my advantage. I

just used my personal like who I was as an advantage. Now here's an interesting

an advantage. Now here's an interesting thing. If let's say you know somebody

thing. If let's say you know somebody did the exact same sales content at me as me but they were a female they would attract a whole different audience even

if the entire creative direction and the scripts were exactly the same. It's

because they're female and they will attract more females. Whereas my

audience it's like 70% male dominated.

If a female said the same thing it'll probably be 70% female dominated. Right?

So then they can lean on, you know, the whole girl boss thing and that kind of, you know, thing, right? Which is I can't touch because I'm not a girl. I cannot

relate. So

sometimes it's just being different in an industry like makes a world of a difference, you know, like if you look at let's say I think for me I look at a lot of entertainment um trends and and

brands and I see what they're doing. I

try to apply to education. So let's say um a company like 88 Rising, right? So,

they're basically like a music label, talent management, um, entertainment company, but they focus on Asian demographics and Asian artists, right?

So, they're basically just doing what other people have done in the US, but for Asians, and they're bigger in like, so they'll do tours in China and Taiwan and stuff like that, right? Same model,

different demographic. So, are they necessarily better than all the other media companies in America? Not

necessarily. but they targeted a different demographic and they did it in a different way and they, you know, brought up different artists, right?

Because they have that touch on the market. So, it's like you would say, oh,

market. So, it's like you would say, oh, like music is saturated. Not really.

It's you just haven't found your angle, right? And that's just tapping into like

right? And that's just tapping into like the things that you're actually interested in and your even just like your how you grew up, right? And so,

like I'll give you some examples. Let's

say um I had a I had a client who he basically loves content creation, right?

And he had a YouTube channel doing it for a long time helping beginners use Cap Cut, how to use Osmo Pocket 3, like you know, how to start being a creator, but it's not really getting much

traction, but he's a highlevel senior person in the glass industry. So, he has a full-time job, right? He does this content creation on the side. So, I told him like, "Hey, if you love content

creation, why don't you just create content for these glass companies who do like these really nice um like staircases and stuff, like really high-end jobs, because if they create

content and they get one client, how much is it worth?" He's like, "Oh, well, maybe like 50k for them." Like, bro, like just help them make the content, they will pay you so much because if you brought one client per month and it was 50K, how much do you think they would

pay you? And then that was that aha

pay you? And then that was that aha moment. And literally two weeks later,

moment. And literally two weeks later, he sold somebody for, you know, a multi,000, you know, retainer, helping them edit videos like, and he just

coaches them on how to film it, and he will edit it for them. He could h outsource that. He's making like an

outsource that. He's making like an extra 3K a month on top of his VP job, right? So, it's like,

right? So, it's like, you know, like if he were to focus on like how to be a creator, he's not competitive because there's people like me and other people like a lot of really good creators he competes directly

against. But if he's like, I'm going to

against. But if he's like, I'm going to help people become creators in the glass industry, you know, because I've been working in this industry for 15 years, like he doesn't need a big following.

He's already making money. Probably more

money than most people do. Like most

people don't even make $1,000 a month actually being a creator, right? So, and

he did he did 3K in like, you know, two weeks, right? And that's a retainer. So,

weeks, right? And that's a retainer. So,

that's every month. So, it's um you have a couple of those that's like an additional like 10K plus per month.

Yeah. You know, I I it's um one of the things that I learned and it's a little bit of a a secret cuz even similar to your story, I was doing this show for nearly two years and in that first two

years of doing it, I've been doing it for just over 3 years now. That first

two years, we got comparatively like hardly any views, like hardly any attention on on my content. And all of a sudden we had an episode about 18 months

ago with Dantes Arum that it was like the first viral episode that we had and then it started off this whole run. And

during that run of like when things were going up, I realized and you touched on it which is relatability

is one of like the most underrated things. And and it's funny because I

things. And and it's funny because I remember actually listening to a I listened to a podcast with JC Cole and he even talked about it like in his music. He's like the thing that I do the

music. He's like the thing that I do the best is I share my story but I do it in an incredibly relatable way. And if we think about what relatability means, it

means that people can see themselves in you. And so even when you were talking

you. And so even when you were talking about like you had an ability to specifically resonate with younger people that like in their 9 to5

especially if they're like not Caucasian as well cuz it's they're just different and it's because that's the person that you were and it's it's like

relatability is so underrated. And so

like that that's the first thing. The

second thing then goes, and it reminds me um when we did this episode a few weeks ago with Seth Goden, he went through his five steps of marketing. I'm

saying this off the top of my head, so I might I'm going to have to paraphrase it, but step three of that process is

basically tell a story that resonates with your smallest viable market. And so

it's like typically your smallest viable market is like an earlier version of who you are or were. And then the story

piece is actually like the key, right?

Because it's like, okay, the relatability is is hugely important, but you need to be able to tell your story so that it actually hits those people

that are like similar to you, that have that core relatability. And so,

and I I feel like you you have something to say on that, but I also want to talk about storytelling cuz I'm like, we we can't give people what we've given them.

Like, it's almost incomplete to the conversation not to share more around storytelling and how to tell great

stories to your smallest viable market.

Yeah. Okay. This this is a really interesting one for me. Um, so I'm going to do it in like this. This is pretty advanced, but I'm going to make it very simple so you guys can like use this at home. So there's two techniques I'm

home. So there's two techniques I'm going to show you. Number one is using the hero's journey and number two is creating content as a video sales

letter. Okay. So what do these these

letter. Okay. So what do these these things mean? Hero's journey is just like

things mean? Hero's journey is just like if you watch any movie like whether it's the Matrix, let's use Matrix as an example. It's just the idea of like the

example. It's just the idea of like the guy lives in an ordinary world, you know, life is whatever. Something

happens. He realizes that he's living in the matrix and he takes a red pill or blue pill. Depending on the choice, his

blue pill. Depending on the choice, his life changes or goes back the same that, you know, and he goes on this whole journey to become the hero, right?

Basically, any story you tell, you should probably use elements of that hero's journey. And I'll give examples

hero's journey. And I'll give examples in a sec. Now, the second thing I mentioned was you creating videos like a VSSL. So, this is something I really

VSSL. So, this is something I really picked up on in the last year where you don't want to be a how-to creator. So,

like let's say you help people with sales or help people with accounting.

You don't want to make every video about, you know, how to sell, how to co- call, like people only come for the tips. They don't come for you. So, you

tips. They don't come for you. So, you

have to think, okay, like how do you tell your personal story? And there are three beliefs you need someone to believe in in order for them to buy. So

every piece of content that I make on YouTube, it's not just educating somebody. It's instilling certain

somebody. It's instilling certain beliefs. It's almost like propaganda,

beliefs. It's almost like propaganda, but in a positive way, you know. So what

do people need to believe? They need to believe in me as a person that I'm credible and I am who I say I am. They

need to believe in my vehicle that whatever it is I'm pushing that that thing works. So if it's personal

thing works. So if it's personal branding, they need to believe like personal branding is the future for 2025. The third thing is they need to

2025. The third thing is they need to believe that they can do it too. That's

why the relatability aspect is so important because if they think, oh, like Patrick did that, but I can't do it. Well, why not? So then I use stories

it. Well, why not? So then I use stories to counter that and and kind of explain like, hey, I was just like you. And I go into the story. So that's that's how you

instill these beliefs. So let's let's go into my personal story and how I do it.

And it's not by accident. Like I sat down and I used chatbt to craft this story so that every time somebody goes on a call with me and my team, I already know what they know about me. Not

because I'm psychic. It's because I planted these stories in certain parts of my funnel and my content and I keep repeating it and I keep like instilling these ideas in their head. So I already

know how they think. So how do I do it?

It's easy. So hero's journey combined with the the beliefs, right? So I'll

give you an example.

I was just a regular employee working in Silicon Valley, you know, doing good, making six figures, but I felt like I had golden handcuffs. I felt like I I had potential to do so much more, but I was just stuck and I didn't really know

which direction to go. So, one day, you know, I didn't really wasn't really feeling my job. So, I quit, moved to Thailand, and basically lived off my savings. I tried a bunch of ideas,

savings. I tried a bunch of ideas, failed every single one, moved back in with my parents, down to my last $200.

Not sure what to do next. This that's

that red pill, red pill, blue pill moment. So I could either go back and

moment. So I could either go back and get a regular job or I could take a chance on myself just one more time. And

the thing that and I thought about like what to do. I tried all these ideas. But

the thing that that the epiphany that I had was if I just taught people the skill that I had already known and the skill that people pay me money for like theoretically like if I made a course

they should buy it, right? And so I did.

And after I put out my first, you know, course I made a,000 my, you know, my first month and 2,000 and 3,000. and it

just kept going up from there. So, this

story I've told in many different ways in in in many parts of my content and it's very relatable because and you know for my audience a lot of them have 9 to5 fives and a lot of times like they might

be doing pretty good in their 9 to5s but it feels like golden handcuffs and um they really they're ready to make the leap right and they have the money to invest in coaching and the knowledge to to get to the other side. So I try to

create that experience as much as possible where they really feel like like you know the thing about I realized about coaching and um this goes beyond just like making money and just selling

courses when somebody invests money and time into whatever program you're selling it's a big responsibility because

they're saying I trust you my life is in your hands like literally right like of course they have to do the work, but the strategy and direction that you're

guiding them towards like you can guide them to the you know the promised land or you can guide them to nothing, right?

And so it you have to take it very seriously because you know some of these people like they really trust you in making it work. So, and because of that, if you kind of package your entire

experience from the videos to booking a call to talking to one of the team members to onboarding and you make that a true experience where they feel very excited like they're going on this journey and like they're the main

character of their life, it's just so much more stickier and so much more interesting for them, right? And um so going back into how people can take this concept and use it for themselves

instead of just teaching things, make people believe in your core ideas, believe in you, your vehicle, and that they can do it too. And integrate the hero's journey as much as you can. Um

and the easiest way to do it is to look for pains and make it relatable and show people how you overcame them. Right? All

right. If there's anything to take away, if you only do that one thing, what's the problem? How come you couldn't do

the problem? How come you couldn't do it? And then what's that big epiphany or

it? And then what's that big epiphany or idea that got you to the other side and you just keep doing that in your videos?

Like it works. Yeah.

You know, it's it's so good thing is we we could spend so long talking about storytelling and like the hero's journey

and all of that. like the rhythm even of like a great story is is beautiful, right? because and it's like I want

right? because and it's like I want people to to to see the different beats of like a great story cuz it starts out of like I'm working uh this sales job in

tech and I'm earning six figures and it's like okay everything's great but I feel the golden handcuffs because like I always dreamed of actually having freedom over my time and money and all

of these things and so it's like everything's great but there's a problem and so I quit my job and I go to uh I live in Thailand and Vietnam for 6

months so that I could like all of this and and and the key thing is like everything you're saying is true but there's like a very strategic rhythm and

anyone who's great at storytelling so if you go and watch like people always talk about like Steve Jobs doing like the Stanford speech or like the the keynotes

for Apple like there's a very strategic rhythm of how he tells stories and how he does the uh presentations so that it

constantly keeps your attention. And

it's the same with like you mentioned any great movie. You'll even start to one of the weird things about storytelling once you start to understand it. It's like you can't unsee

understand it. It's like you can't unsee it. Like you start seeing it everywhere.

it. Like you start seeing it everywhere.

Like any great any even even like a great song like even like a like Taylor Swift or like I mentioned J. Cole or

like any of these artists like Michael Jackson, like any of these artists you love, they're telling stories within the music, which is why it's like so sticky, which is why you play it again and again

and you relate to it so hard and you're like listening to it on the car in the car and it takes you back to certain moments. It's all storytelling. And the

moments. It's all storytelling. And the

thing that you like where my mind went when I was listening to you, we spoke about how AI and chat GPT can be your coach. I think that that would actually

coach. I think that that would actually be like a great thing to show people is like chat GPT can actually almost coach you through it can take your story,

which is true, and almost coach you through your experiences and like how to actually get those beats right of what

your story is. And like

if more people could just understand how to share their story in the right way, it would lead to such gamechanging

results in like how people respond to what content they're putting out or their message or their brand. Like it

would change things for people. Yeah.

No, 100%. Here's the thing about stories as I go ahead and set this up is for stories it's like you have to understand you don't have to be a good storyteller you just need to know the

structure right so the one I use is called an arcplot structure and I actually learned it at USC so I you know shout out to my Trojans but um University of Southern California but I

learned it from a a director actually who did commercials and he told me that every movie is so predictable because it follows an arc plot structure and you can time the movie by the on what's

going to happen in the movie because they follow it to the tea. Like majority

of the movies that you see. Um, and so when you're using formulas, the chance of you hitting is so much higher because the structure is not the problem. It's

just what you fill it in. And so people need to understand like storytelling is a science. There's an art and a science,

a science. There's an art and a science, but you know, it's it's literally a formula that you can copy, right? So

let's say if you want to make a story and you're doing a video where you're trying to convince someone to, I don't know, quit their 9 toive job, right?

Like I I'm doing. Okay? So, let's go ahead and um I'm making a uh YouTube video and I want to tell my story using the arc plot structure hero's journey.

And specifically, I want to share my story on how I had a tech sales job, wasn't happy with it. I had golden handcuffs, but I was making six figures, left it all, moved to Thailand, tried a

bunch of ideas, failed five different ideas, used all my savings, went back to my parents' home, last $200. And then I had the epiphany of um I got to make online courses because I have skills in

that. And instead of trying all these

that. And instead of trying all these random models, why not do the thing that I'm actually good at and uh make content doing it. And then the end resolution of

doing it. And then the end resolution of me doing that was first month made $1,000, second month made 2,000, and just kept going up from there. Then I

moved to Thai uh to Vietnam uh permanently and now I'm just living a good life building my online business helping people and inspire them and you know set off to the sunset. So let's use

that and let's say we're going to make a 20inut YouTube video just telling my personal story and my goal is to inspire people to show them that it's possible

that they can do it too to show that I'm credible and relatable and also that you know the key to making this work is you need to build a personal brand. So, you

know, at the end of it, I want people to, you know, be really inspired so that they click the link in the description, go on my website, and then sign up for something.

So, yeah, that's literally like, not going to lie, that's how I, you know, brainstorm my YouTube videos sometimes.

And, um, like I'll have an idea and I'll literally just do that. And then what's what's going to happen is because I mentioned like the arc plot structure, hero's journey, it's going to take that raw information and um just like put in

bullet points. That's usually how it

bullet points. That's usually how it works. So, let's see. Let's see what it

works. So, let's see. Let's see what it comes up with. And it's crazy thing, right? Like literally millions of views

right? Like literally millions of views over 300,000 subscribers. Like it it's that took like a few minutes to do and

it's like the and and I think what you said is perfect. It's like great storytelling is a mix of art and science.

And it's like getting that right. And I

think that's kind of where chat GPT really helps is like in getting the scientific part of it, the structure right. And through working with chat

right. And through working with chat GPT, you actually start to cuz I do similar things. You start to learn, it's

similar things. You start to learn, it's helping you improve at the skill of it.

Like you start to learn how to actually improve as a storyteller. Yeah. Exactly.

So yeah, I mean diving into the the results, right? So 20 minutes, you know,

results, right? So 20 minutes, you know, first uh two minutes is the ordinary world. So literally like each bullet

world. So literally like each bullet point like one two three it's a part of the arc plot structure that I was telling you about. So we start in the ordinary world call to adventure which

is um late night moment scrolling on YouTube seeing digital nomads which is actually true. So, it's giving me the

actually true. So, it's giving me the bullet points, right? And I mean, yeah, that like that's it pretty much structured the entire video. And because

for this video, you know, if I ask it to like write a word for word script, it will. But because it's my personal

will. But because it's my personal story, I would rather just have these bullet points in front of me when I'm making the video and just like go through each one because it feels a lot more organic, you know? Um, and then

from there, it's like a 20 minute video, call to action, and that's it. Now, what

I like about it is it gives B-roll ideas. So like yeah like these are all

ideas. So like yeah like these are all legitimate like good ideas I can insert B bro in and uh I can fill them or just use my library of B-au and just create that story. And what I'll actually do is

that story. And what I'll actually do is I I do have a library of bureau of me like living in Asia and stuff like that.

So my editors know to put certain B-rolls in certain spots like if I say like I used to work in a tech sales job they know which specific picture to use of me in my cubicle and without me having to tell them. You know what I

mean? So that's that's when you know

mean? So that's that's when you know like your your editors have like good sync with you. Yeah. And that's pretty much it. Makes sense. Yeah. No, that's

much it. Makes sense. Yeah. No, that's

so good. And it's like it's like once you kind of uh and it's what is again what we spoke about right in the beginning of like those circles of like what does the world care about? And then

the other circle is like what do you care about? And within that intersection

care about? And within that intersection and also just understanding the pain points of your uh ideal customer is like there's so many content ideas within that. And then what we just shared

that. And then what we just shared around storytelling is like once you have those ideas that you can create content around, how do you actually make the content sticky and people care about

it? It's storytelling. You know what the

it? It's storytelling. You know what the final thing that I wanted to move on to quickly is monetization which is step three. How

to turn attention into dollars. And this

is something you said. You said if you want to make money as fast as possible after discovery, the second thing you must think about is how to convert those eyeballs into dollars. And you know

what? I just want to I want to get right

what? I just want to I want to get right to the heart of it because you and I had a conversation last week and you shared something so interesting around sales,

which is like the biggest thing that actually holds people back from selling once they're getting interest on their content. The biggest thing that holds

content. The biggest thing that holds people back from selling is actually like belief and mindset more than even like any sort of tangible skill set.

belief and mindset.

What made you say that? Yeah. So, you

know, I work with a lot of people who, you know, are making their first sales online, and I've realized the ones that get results faster, it's really just believing that they're worth the price

that they're asking. So, I'll give an example of the um the guy, you know, doing the editing for the glass industry right?

So, you know, he was charging like like $300 or something a month to edit people's videos, right? Which is like way way way way too cheap, you know? And

um I told him like, "Why you why do you charge that?" He's like, "Oh, like you

charge that?" He's like, "Oh, like you know, it's just kind of like a hobby.

Somebody asked me." So, I was like, "Okay, why not?" Right? And I'm like, "Okay, why don't you charge like $3,000? Like,

let's let's just like 10x it, right?"

He's like, "Uh, well, that that's a lot of money." You

know, so right away, I can feel that his his weakness was his limiting belief of he doesn't feel that his editing is worth $3,000 a month. So, I said, "No, bro.

For these people, they're making so like I I told him like, okay, like for that client that's paying you $300, like are they is it working for them? Are they

getting leads?" He's like, "Yeah." And

I'm like, "Okay, well, how much is the average deal size?" And he told me like thousands of dollars, right? Like tens

of thousands of dollars. I'm like, come on, man. Like 3,000 is nothing to these

on, man. Like 3,000 is nothing to these guys. You know how much they're making?

guys. You know how much they're making?

You're in the industry. You know, like they're literally making millions of dollars per year. So why would you charge 300? And then that was just like

charge 300? And then that was just like a like a aha moment for him where he was like, why am I charging three like $300?

It doesn't make any sense. You know, so I'm like, all right, let's put it on paper. You're going to do this. You're

paper. You're going to do this. You're

going to charge $3,000. You're going to hit up anyone you know in the industry.

you've been working in this industry for like 15 years, so you should know somebody. You're a VP and um someone's

somebody. You're a VP and um someone's going to say yes. And literally he he just hit up just not even not even like less than 10 people, okay? Probably less

than five and one person bought it for 3K. So So it's like and and he does make

3K. So So it's like and and he does make content, you know, it doesn't get that many views, but it doesn't need to get that many views because like he's kind of like, you know, like you use your advantages. Like no one in his industry

advantages. Like no one in his industry is a creator anyway, so he's probably going to be the biggest one. So I told him like, "Look, if you keep it up, you get these clients, you're making money,

you will probably be the biggest like creator in your glass industry, like legitimately because the market is so untapped for you." And now that's that's

his goal to be the biggest one, right?

And um yeah, it's that's that's why it's like mindset like people don't believe they can be the most popular in their niche, right? Like for me, when I did

niche, right? Like for me, when I did the sales thing, my goal was to be the most popular person on YouTube in tech sales. And I did do it. My videos have

sales. And I did do it. My videos have the most views out of anyone. If you try to find how to get a tech sales job, it's going to be me popping up. So, it's

more realistic than you think, right?

And I I learned it myself when on Udemy, I was the number one sales instructor at a time, you know? So, it's like, how can you like people don't think they could be number one number one in the world at something? you can't because it's like

something? you can't because it's like most people aren't trying first of all and um most people don't even believe you can make money being a creator, right? Or they don't believe they can do

right? Or they don't believe they can do it. So yeah, it's it's the belief and

it. So yeah, it's it's the belief and the confidence to come in and charge high prices. And um once you're able to

high prices. And um once you're able to do that, it changes the game. And if you want to like mentally like I know people are afraid. They're like, "Oh, I don't

are afraid. They're like, "Oh, I don't want to get rejected, right?" So just know this. If they say like life as a

know this. If they say like life as a game is just making unreasonable offers until somebody says yes. Like literally

you just charge a big number and then maybe you'll get no no no. And every

time you get a no, you ask why and then you handle the objection, right? Okay.

Like why not why why don't you want to buy it for like 10k? Oh well the price is too high. Okay. Like what what price are you looking for? Oh well if I can do it for you know 5k then maybe. Okay. So

so you're saying like if I do it for 5k and we're give you these things like you you would definitely do it. Uh yeah.

Okay. So like if I literally offer that to you right now, like could you get started today? Oh well, yeah, I guess.

started today? Oh well, yeah, I guess.

Then you just close them like literally, right? That's how conversations go. So

right? That's how conversations go. So

um yeah, we can dive more into sales, but like that's the high level gist.

Yeah, that's so that's so good. I never

heard someone say that. That's so good, which is like um business is a game of making unreasonable asks or unreasonable offers until someone says yes. And and the

reason I say it's so good and I like even reflect on it in that way is belief is like a funny thing, right?

Because in one way it's so simple to like flip the switch and then start doing the thing. But then in another way if the belief and the confidence piece

is missing, like if you just fundamentally don't feel worthy of charging a certain price, like that will keep holding you back. like you will not

be able to get past this certain level or point in your business if the belief is not there. Like you will keep hitting your head against that ceiling. And so

it's like it's weird because on the one hand it's so easy to or simple to fix it but in the other hand it's so difficult to actually like get through that belief

layer. And so what I do for me

layer. And so what I do for me personally because we all go through this we all have limiting beliefs in some arena. I don't care who you are.

some arena. I don't care who you are.

And the thing that I love about what you mentioned, you just made it simple, which is like what if you stop thinking about it of like, oh, I don't think someone will buy

from me for this amount of money. And

it's just like, now I'm just going to keep making unreasonable offers until someone says yes. And every time they say no, I'm going to understand why they

said no and like overcome that. And

eventually you're going to get to the point that you succeed. And so it's almost like you overwhelm your thinking mind with just action, with just making the

unreasonable offer, making the unreasonable ask. And like the action of

unreasonable ask. And like the action of doing that until you start to get the evidence. And that's the key I found

evidence. And that's the key I found personally to overcoming limiting beliefs is like you need to build this stack. And this is what Alex Hozi says,

stack. And this is what Alex Hozi says, but you need to build this stack of undeniable evidence that you can do the thing. And so eventually after you've

thing. And so eventually after you've sold three offers or like whatever, after you've sold your first offer and then five offers, then 10 offers at 3,000,

now you just believe that you're the sort of person that can sell a $3,000 offer on a 20inut phone call. Like

that's the process of how it's done.

Yeah. Yeah. But let's let's make it tactical for the the people starting from zero, right? Because you know like like if I'm selling Founder X, I've already helped so many people quit their 9-5. So I can just be like, "Yeah, you

9-5. So I can just be like, "Yeah, you know, this is the price and uh if you can't do it, it's cool, right?" But for people who don't have any social proof, no testimonials, no clients, you know,

like what are they supposed to do? How

do they think about this? So how you overcome this obstacle is this.

You are your first testimonial.

That's the key. Because if you did not accomplish what you are selling coaching or something to another person, well, first of all, you shouldn't even be selling it, right? Because like you literally can't get them the result. So,

you're doing like you're not doing the right thing. But let's say you know

right thing. But let's say you know you're like uh like you used to be fat and now you're fit, sexy, six-pack abs, everything like health dialed in and a

lot of people aspire for that. Okay,

let's say let's you're coaching someone how to be fit and you you walk the talk, right? like you've done the thing. So if

right? like you've done the thing. So if

you don't have any testimonials, you never helped anybody else, you just use yourself and just say like, "Hey, like you know, I used to be just like you like eating pizzas and burgers and not going to the gym, but here's what I did and I'm pretty sure I can do it for

you." In fact, I'm I'm very confident as

you." In fact, I'm I'm very confident as long as you stick with me, we will get you whatever result that you know you're promising, right? And it's really that

promising, right? And it's really that confidence in how you speak that will convince the person to go to the other side. Because you'd be surprised, like a

side. Because you'd be surprised, like a lot of my clients, they can sell high ticket offers, we're talking thousands of dollars per client with just a Google doc, you know, and a lot of times a lot of them don't even have a Google doc.

They just make a promise over the phone and they agree to a price. Like no

website, like literally nothing, you know, just a LinkedIn profile or like a YouTube channel with like 25 subscribers and they're able to still close people.

So, it's really just your confidence level in the thing that you do right now. If you suck at everything, you

now. If you suck at everything, you can't coach people. Your content sucks.

Yeah. Don't expect people to um buy like because it's just not good. You know, I want to go over this before we get out of here cuz one of the most popular videos on your channel and I think it's

relevant to what you just mentioned. Uh

over 500,000 people have watched it.

maybe even know what I'm referring to, but it's uh it's called the eight the eight dark psychology techniques to sell anything. And so I'm not going to go

anything. And so I'm not going to go over all eight, but one of them and the one that stood out to me and it was just

interesting to me. You spoke about the pain and dream gap and and here's specifically what you said in the video.

said, "The first thing that you must understand about the human mind is that if there's no pain, there's simply no sale." You then go on to say that you

sale." You then go on to say that you want to mix pain and pleasure together so that people will buy your stuff. And

you're building a scenario in the customer's head where where they are, where they want to go, the challenges that they have. And it's not that you're pitching them, you're positioning

yourself as the solution to someone's pain.

Can you I I know that you're someone and we've even spoken about this like you've read and like you've read hundreds of books on sales and then you've also just

like done a ton of sales calls yourself.

If someone just wanted to internalize and understand what you just mentioned, the pain and dream gap, what is the key?

What is the heart of what they have to understand?

Yeah, I'll uh start with this. the video

he's talking about. I have multiple videos on dark psychology tips on how to sell anything. Um, understand it's not

sell anything. Um, understand it's not really dark, right? I just I want to be clear on that. I just packaged it that way because I know it gets views. That's

the truth. They're actually these are actually just normal sales techniques that anybody uses, you know, I I could have titled it, you know, top 10 sales tips to close anything. It'd be the same topic, right? So that that's actually a

topic, right? So that that's actually a tip for you guys content creators. You

can take the same information, package it in like a different way. So for me it was like oh that dark psychology kind of vibe and you know the lights are like dim and everything. Um same same content

way more views right. Um so yeah but anyways but getting into the example that he was giving right so if someone were to use this particular technique to sell it's one of the most powerful

because it's it's a framework right so let's say you go on a call and I'll just kind of walk you through how the call like typically goes right and I'll be like like hey man how's it going? Um, so

yeah, man. What's what's what's the problem? And then people just go into

problem? And then people just go into the problems of like, oh, I'm working a 9 to5 job. I feel I can do more. Like my

my boss sucks. All this all this stuff, right? So, you need to find the pains

right? So, you need to find the pains because like if there's no pains, you're just a nice to have and nobody will buy.

It needs to hurt, right? Like imagine if you you broke your leg. Are you just going to leave it or are you going to go to a doctor? If the doctor was like, "Yeah, you know, to fix it, it's going to be really expensive. like you can either just leave it and permanently

have it broken or we can like fix it right now. You would pay for the fix it.

right now. You would pay for the fix it.

It doesn't really matter the cost because it hurts too much, right? So,

you want to do that in your sale. No

matter what you're selling, I don't care if you think it's boring or whatever accounting services, everybody has a pain. You just don't realize it yet. So,

pain. You just don't realize it yet. So,

the the technique is people will not give you their pains when you ask. So, if I say, "What's the problem, man?" They're just going to go

problem, man?" They're just going to go surface level. Oh, yeah. you know, I I I

surface level. Oh, yeah. you know, I I I have a job. It's pretty whatever.

They're not really telling you a problem. Then you dive deeper. You ask

problem. Then you dive deeper. You ask

questions to get like to get to that emotional pain. So, I'll be like, "Oh,

emotional pain. So, I'll be like, "Oh, okay. So,

okay. So, I mean, if it's like just okay, then why are you on the call?"

They're like, "Oh, shoot." Like, "Well, yeah, I I said it was okay, but like you know, like I don't really like it." Oh,

okay. So, you don't like your job. Is

that right? Right. Yeah. I don't like Well, why don't you like your job? And

then they they they open up, right?

Okay. Well, I don't like it because I have to work so many hours, right? So,

it's um you just keep asking these questions. Like, when I'm on these sales

questions. Like, when I'm on these sales calls, I'm talking 20% of the time, asking questions 80% and I'm acting like a therapist, you know? Like, they're

literally dumping the problems on me that they won't even tell their closest friends. That's how much they trust me.

friends. That's how much they trust me.

And so, when someone trusts you enough in that way and they feel like you can help, whatever you pitch them later, it's going to be so much more potent.

Whereas, if I got on the call and I said like, "Hey, this is founder X. Like, do

you want to buy it?" No one's going to buy. But if I said, "Hey, man. Like, so

buy. But if I said, "Hey, man. Like, so

like, you know, why do you want to like why do you want to start your own business? Like, it seems like you're

business? Like, it seems like you're pretty good where you're at." And then they really go into the true problems that they're thinking about that they don't tell anybody else. So, that's

first. What is the problem? Once I

understand the problem, the natural next step is just to ask them, "What do they want?" It's that simple. It's like,

want?" It's that simple. It's like,

okay, so I I I kind of see like you don't you don't really like your job. I

totally get that. I was in the same shoes as you. So like if you were to build a personal brand, like like how would you want it to look like? And then

they go into like, oh man, I want to do what you're doing, man. Like I want to live in Asia too, make content, this kind of stuff, right? That's why like the personal brand part is important because when you're selling coaching or

like something B to so like to everyday regular people, they want to be like you. Your content is basically like they

you. Your content is basically like they see themselves in you. And that's why they pay you money to learn from you, right? So if if let's say they say, "Oh,

right? So if if let's say they say, "Oh, I want to make content. I want freedom.

I want to travel and stuff like that."

So they they create this dream in their head. Then then you ask deeper like

head. Then then you ask deeper like similar to the pain side. Ask them very deeply on the dream side. It's like why do you why do you really want that? Like

why is it important for you that you can work you know anytime you want? Oh well,

you know, like I actually have a kid on the way and you know I need to spend more time at home to you know take care of the kid and all that kind of stuff.

So, see this is an emotional thing. It's

not about business anymore. Business is

just a means to an end. But what do they really want? They want to be a good

really want? They want to be a good father or a good mother, right? So, once

I understand their true true goal, and it's never just about the money, the money is a means to an end for a goal, then it's like, okay, we know where

you're at. We know where you want to go.

you're at. We know where you want to go.

Like, what have you tried to get there?

Oh, man. Like I I tried making content, but like you know, it's not getting any traction. I don't I don't really know

traction. I don't I don't really know what to do. I don't know anyone in my circle that creates content, so I don't even know who to ask, right? So now I'm I'm widening the gap, right? We know

where they where what they want. Like we

know where they're at, where they want to go. And my job as the salesperson in

to go. And my job as the salesperson in this situation is to widen the gap as far as possible because I need them to feel like they cannot do it by themselves. Some people cannot do it by

themselves. Some people cannot do it by themselves. Some people can, but they

themselves. Some people can, but they don't want to do it by themselves, right? Right? And that's why they pay

right? Right? And that's why they pay money for whatever knowledge that you have cuz like if if you can give them advice and they get the result in one week versus them spending a whole year, they will pay for the advice any any time of the day, you know? So, widen the

gap. Why can't you do it by yourself?

gap. Why can't you do it by yourself?

What have you done? And why did it fail?

And you get them to admit in their own words, I don't want to do it by myself.

I can't do it by myself. I just I just need help. Right? If it's coming from

need help. Right? If it's coming from them, you didn't sell them. They already

knew what the problem was. they you just brought it out. But see, this is like high level like persuasion because the best sales people, they can make you

believe in ideas that you didn't even have in your head. Right? Now, you can say, "Oh, is it manipulative?" Not

really, because at the end of the day, you're trying to help them become a better person. Right? So, that's the

better person. Right? So, that's the idea. You're planting ideas in their

idea. You're planting ideas in their head and you're making them believe that they came up with the idea by themselves because if they didn't, because if they knew they if they knew the solution and the road map, they would have done it by themselves. but they didn't, right? And

themselves. but they didn't, right? And

people love to buy. They don't like to be sold. That's why they have to feel

be sold. That's why they have to feel like they came up with the idea themselves. Now, a bonus tip for you is

themselves. Now, a bonus tip for you is once you widen the gap, you need to create urgency, right? So, like in the in the example, in the video I did, I drew a fire and I said like, okay, like

if you do nothing, you burn and die. So,

I always ask people like, okay, like you're here, you want to go here, but you know, you feel like you can't do it by yourself. Well,

by yourself. Well, you know, if you just stayed at your job and you didn't create content, you didn't build a personal brand, like, you know, would it really matter? I mean,

your life seems pretty good to me.

Then they'll be like, "Ah, well, I know it sounds good on paper, but and then they go into all these more problems, right?" And so then I will ask questions

right?" And so then I will ask questions like, "Okay, well, like when you if you were to take care of this, like when would you want to do it?" They would say like, "Oh, maybe like six months from now." And then see this is the thing

now." And then see this is the thing with sales like most people would just be like oh okay six months I'll make a note of that. What you want to do is you shorten their cycle and you want to make them realize that like I'll be like okay

well I'm I'm a little confused man like you said this is a pretty big problem.

You need to take care of your kid and you know you want to spend time at home but if you wait 6 months like don't you think that's like too much time of waiting? Like why don't you just get

waiting? Like why don't you just get started now? Like like that's why you're

started now? Like like that's why you're on the call, right? So, I'm I'm really challenging them and then like it's logical like it makes sense. So, they're

going to be like, "Ah, you're actually right. Like, why why am I why am I

right. Like, why why am I why am I delaying it so much?" You know, I always have this problem, Patrick. I just can't pull the trigger, you know? So, you see then then it it's easier for me to sell whatever program I have because they

have admitted that they have problems. They admitted they like what they want to do, why they can't do it, and then why they need to do it now, not later.

And then once I get all of that right, which is majority of the call by the way, then I get into pitching and I just say I transition nicely and I say like, "All right, I totally understand where you're coming from." I summarize

everything they just told me to make them feel like, "Oh, Patrick hears me."

And I say, "Okay, I think I might be able to help. Do you mind if I share, you know, how the program works and what I think we can do for you? Yeah, I would love that, man. Like, please." And then

I go into the pitch. And then the pitch is really just reverse engineering whatever problem they told me. And it

makes it feel like, oh my god, this program was literally built for me. But

the thing is, every time I get on a call, every person feels the same way.

How is that possible? It's because I listen to their problems and made it sound like it's built for them, right?

And it is built for them in degree, right? We're helping them build a

right? We're helping them build a personal brand and monetize, right?

Everyone has the same problem. But the

way I do it makes it feel so personal, you know? Yeah, that's the like if they

you know? Yeah, that's the like if they said I don't have enough time because I have a nineto-five job and I don't know if I can like write all these scripts by myself. I like oh by the way in this

myself. I like oh by the way in this particular part of the course we teach you how to write the script using AI. So

you know like you told me before like you don't have time. You have a nineto-ive job. With this like you can

nineto-ive job. With this like you can literally write the entire script in like two minutes, right? Which we showed you in this uh podcast, right? So I will only talk about that particular part of

the course if I know it solves a specific problem. Right? So my course

specific problem. Right? So my course solves many problems, but I I'll take the top three or top five and I'll only talk about those. And so that's that's how it's like, you know, like if they don't care about code email, I'm not

talking about code email. If they don't care about Instagram, I'm not talking about Instagram. If they only care about

about Instagram. If they only care about YouTube, I'm going to focus on YouTube.

You see? So that's how like every pitch is tailored. And that's um that's the

is tailored. And that's um that's the key to selling, man. man, you know, I I just um I love that we were able to have

this conversation and I'm I'm sure like even for me listening to you like go through that whole thing, it's so

seamless and um almost like effortless of like even when you're like doing the roleplay of just speaking through it,

it's it feels like easy and I I just from my own experience, I know that that comes through the reps, but like before you can even get to that point, it's like you have to understand the

principles. And so, like, we set an

principles. And so, like, we set an intention right in the beginning of this episode. And I love it because I feel

episode. And I love it because I feel like we we went through all of the principles that like if someone just listened to this and internalized it and

then started to put the reps on top of it, it's like you will see a shift. And

so I just love the fact that we were able to do that and I'm appreciative of you being here for that Patrick. Mhm.

Before we get out of here, this is where I have to end it is right in the beginning of this

conversation. We spoke about that moment

conversation. We spoke about that moment of you being in bed. You're looking at your ceiling. It's a dark night. you got

your ceiling. It's a dark night. you got

$200 in your bank account, things aren't working.

I want to contrast, and I want you to do it for a second. Just contrast that moment in time with where you're at now, where like you're you're not working

your 9 to5. You're living in the location that you want to be in. You're

working the times that you want. You've

made multi6 figures doing your own business.

For you personally, for Patrick, the human being, how does it feel to be in the moment that you're in knowing where you started at and knowing some of those difficult

times that you had?

Well, I I'll even widen the gap a little bit more actually before the the whole entrepreneur thing with $200 in my bank account. I would say a more impactful

account. I would say a more impactful starting point is when I was 17 and also another night I couldn't sleep. And um

that was when I realized I was a loser.

Like for real. So at the time, you know, I wasn't like the greatest in school.

Girls definitely did not like me. I

probably got rejected by a girl during that time, which probably set it off.

And um I would uh you know, like I would just spend all my time playing Dota, you know, which is like a computer game. So

like Dota on a, you know, Warcraft 3 for those who are, you know, played back then. Um, and dude, like I literally put

then. Um, and dude, like I literally put my value into a game, you know, I mean, I didn't I didn't focus on my life. I

didn't wasn't take care of my body. I

wasn't social. Like I was just a loser.

And there's just one day I just couldn't take it anymore, you know? I was like, this this cannot be my life, you know?

Like I am going to change. I don't know where I'm going to start, but I have to do something because this is not liveable. And it's not wasn't like I was

liveable. And it's not wasn't like I was suicidal, but it was just so depressing.

You know what I mean? And so, you know, from that point on, around 17 years old, I just thought of three things, which is work on my mind, body, and soul, which is like start doing push-ups, start going for runs, start trying in school.

And um so I kind of connected it with like start being more social because I was very like I used to be that quiet kid that that everyone would be like, "Oh, he he doesn't really talk. just

like hangs out there and he's just like he's just there, right? Like like like it's like almost like not existing, you know?

So, let's take that Patrick, right? And

we compare it to now. It's it's really interesting because how can I go from like the shiest person in the room to literally making a living

off of talking and being in, you know, you like an expert in sales and persuading people when I was in fact the opposite, you know, back in high school.

And it was because the pain I experienced and endured during that time was so strong that it made me so motivated to learn the skill

of communications because that was my way out, right? Not even about making money, just to communicate with other people. That was my way out of basically

people. That was my way out of basically depression. And so the reason why I

depression. And so the reason why I teach sales to begin with, you know, to start is like I'm doing it for the older version of me. Like literally, we talking about the whole personal brand thing. That's where the motivation comes

thing. That's where the motivation comes from. Like I would not understand every

from. Like I would not understand every little step of the process on how to sell. Being able to like do a role play

sell. Being able to like do a role play instantly, top of my head, any example, sell anything if I didn't have that obsession of wanting to be a better communicator. And that obsession only

communicator. And that obsession only comes from pain, you know? So that I was willing to invest time and energy and money into learning the skill set because that pain was so deep. So

compare that to now.

It's pretty sick, you know, like um you know, before I thought I would only go as far as being um a dental assistant.

You know, I remember I did a I had a class in uh high school where they asked us what what we want to do for a living.

And I I was like, "Oh, maybe I'll be a dentist." And then I looked up how hard

dentist." And then I looked up how hard it is to be a dentist. And I was like, "Oh, that's too hard. Maybe I'll just be a dental assistant then." And I thought that that was as far or maybe a nurse, right? That's as far as I thought. And

right? That's as far as I thought. And

then as I stopped trying to be a loser and was like I can like and not necessarily those jobs are for losers but it's like there's more to life than just like going after what you think is attainable. Um then I just started doing

attainable. Um then I just started doing like what I truly want to do and like you know and putting the effort into myself. So now it's like bro like it's

myself. So now it's like bro like it's crazy because I live I live in Asia in Vietnam. Um this is the life I always

Vietnam. Um this is the life I always wanted. It's like I'm free. I can do

wanted. It's like I'm free. I can do what I want. I can work when I want. I

get to do what I do. Like my job is literally to help people and change their lives. Like there's no like how

their lives. Like there's no like how much, you know, like that's so cool, right? And I'm just getting started too.

right? And I'm just getting started too.

Like I'm still young. Like I still got decades to go. So it's like the impact that I can have it's it's uh really rewarding. And I'll tell you this, like

rewarding. And I'll tell you this, like the main motivator for me is to inspire others. Like every decision I make in

others. Like every decision I make in terms of like where I want to take my life in business always I always think about am I inspiring other people to become the best version of themselves

because that transformation was for me was so transformative and so impactful that if I can do something like that for another person and make money from that

like I'm I'm living a great life right I have nothing to complain about you know so um yeah I mean still in the beginning stages but in terms of how I feel and how free I feel in my day-to-day. It

feels good, you know. I'm I'm still hungry for I still want to, you know, grow and everything, but like um I feel like I' I've definitely come a long way.

And it's not about the money even. It's

just the type of person I've become.

It's uh Yeah. Yeah. It's uh it's life-changing, you know. Yeah. You know

what? You you um you said it perfectly.

You said, "I'm free." And as soon as you said that, I was like, I feel like that's the that's the perfect closing to this episode. So, Patrick, Dang, I'm so

this episode. So, Patrick, Dang, I'm so grateful that you came on the show, man.

It's been great. Yeah, Gillum, really appreciate you having me on. Um, I'm

sure we told some great stories. And for

everyone listening, just know this, like, you can go as far as you want to go. Nobody's stopping you but yourself.

go. Nobody's stopping you but yourself.

That's awesome. Thank you so much, man.

That was so much fun. Yeah. All right.

Catch you later, man. Appreciate it.

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