Top researchers consider leaving U.S. amid funding cuts: 'The science world is ending'

AMNA NAWAZ: A poll from the journal  "Nature" earlier this year found that  

75 percent of researchers in the  U.S. are considering leaving the  

country. That includes a man who's  been dubbed the Mozart of Math.

Stephanie Sy examines what's behind  a potential scientific brain drain.

TERENCE TAO, Professor, UCLA: And you're  only allowed to use it three times.

STEPHANIE SY: UCLA Professor  Terence Tao has spent his entire  

life solving problems, not just theoretical ones.

TERENCE TAO: And every scan is  like taking one measurement.

STEPHANIE SY: Tao is explaining how  his research led to an algorithm  

which dramatically cut the time of MRI scans.

TERENCE TAO: MRI scans that used to take, say,  three minutes, they cannot take 30, 40 seconds.

STEPHANIE SY: Math research has led to  countless technological breakthroughs.

TERENCE TAO: These are things that mathematicians  played with in like the early 20th century.

STEPHANIE SY: Hailed as the Mozart of  Math, Tao enrolled in college by the  

time he was 9. As a teenager, he immigrated  from Australia to the U.S. and began a Ph.D.  

program at Princeton. In 2006, he won  math's highest honor, the Fields Medal.

And, today, he's widely considered to be  the finest mathematician of his generation.

What was appealing about being a researcher  and a Ph.D. student here in the U.S.?

TERENCE TAO: Because there's just this  long tradition of excellence and people  

know that they can come here, they can  be welcomed. I was very influenced by  

American science shows. "Cosmos" in  particular had a big impact on me.

ACTOR: Let's count the bets and find out.

TERENCE TAO: I learned to count from "Sesame  Street," for instance. Also, they're just --  

I bet, just because of scale, you have got to have  100 good universities, 100 good math departments.  

There's just so many conferences and workshops,  and there was a really lively ecosystem.

I don't consider myself super political.

STEPHANIE SY: But the lively ecosystem that  helped develop his genius is under threat.

TERENCE TAO: For the first time,  I'm actually concerned about,  

like, existential issues. Like,  departments could conceivably, like,  

either close down or drastically  reduce their research component.

STEPHANIE SY: As part of the Trump  administration's push to slash federal spending,  

the National Science Foundation was forced to  suspend $1 billion in grants. The cuts directly  

hit Tao and UCLA's Institute for Pure and Applied  Mathematics, where he directs special projects.

TERENCE TAO: Suddenly, my life is  fund-raising and finding alternative  

sources of funding and making sort of  triage plans. If -- how do you -- like,  

if funding is -- if we can't restore  funding, like, what do you cut first?

STEPHANIE SY: The White House has cited multiple  reasons for federal research cuts, often without  

clear explanation or connections to its rationale.  That includes opposition to DEI policies and an  

ongoing battle with many universities over  antisemitism and what it calls wokeness.

The uncertainty and instability in funding  is causing many researchers and scientists,  

including Tao, to weigh whether to leave the U.S.

TERENCE TAO: I myself have been contacted by  departments from Europe and Australia and China.

STEPHANIE SY: Would you consider...

TERENCE TAO: I mean, until, yes, six  months ago, I'd say I'm very happy here,  

that, I mean, things have worked here for 30  years. But, yes, in the worst-case scenario,  

which I didn't even think was on the radar,  I mean, maybe if the institute closes down,  

I can no longer fund my students,  I have to find another option.

STEPHANIE SY: And there's evidence that  a brain drain may already be under way.

DANIELLA FODERA, Ph.D, Columbia  University: So I have definitely  

kind of shifted my focus towards finding a  research position abroad, particularly in Europe.

STEPHANIE SY: Daniella Fodera is a biomedical  engineer who is set to complete her Ph.D. from  

Columbia University this fall. Back in March,  the NIH grant that helped fund her research on  

uterine fibroids, which affect roughly  80 percent of women, was canceled.

DANIELLA FODERA: For a condition that  affects so many women, the fact that we don't  

understand why it happens and how we  can possibly treat it is a disservice.

STEPHANIE SY: Fodera's funding was later  restored after Columbia agreed to pay more than  

$200 million to settle several investigations  with the Trump administration. Even so,  

she's now looking abroad and in the  private sector for research opportunities.

DANIELLA FODERA: Definitely a path that  I would never have envisioned, but,  

in this moment, it is making  me consider other options.

ANNA DARLING, Ph.D, Ohio State University: I  thought the only thing that could stop me from  

getting a Ph.D. is for the world to end.  And the science world is kind of ending,  

the -- at least at the collegiate level.

STEPHANIE SY: Last month, Anna Darling started  a Ph.D. program in neuroscience at Ohio State  

University, where she's researching how early life  stress and trauma can impact adolescent behaviors.

ANNA DARLING: I wanted to be  a professor, just like my mom,  

who was a science teacher growing  up. I wanted to teach science.

STEPHANIE SY: But Darling says she recently found  

out that the funding for her Ph.D.  program is no longer guaranteed.

ANNA DARLING: My outlook on being a scientist  in this country has definitely changed,  

because not only is the path  a little bit more challenging,  

but also the freedom to do the research you  want to do and to speak on the topics that  

you truly believe and hold value in  is just not as free as it used to be.

STEPHEN JONES, Biochemist, Vilnius  University: One of the things that's  

always made America great is our research  excellence. And that's something that  

takes a long time to build. And when you  lose that, it's really hard to regain it.

STEPHANIE SY: Biochemist Stephen Jones has  already left the U.S. for Lithuania. In 2020,  

during the height of the pandemic, he  says he began applying for jobs overseas  

after noticing a rise in anti-science sentiment.

STEPHEN JONES: I would really love to be in  a place where the type of work that I'm doing  

is being valued. And that's something that's,  once I started interviewing outside of the U.S.,  

I was seeing more of that, sort of  this respect, not just by people within  

the scientific community, but people  outside of the scientific community.

STEPHANIE SY: Today, Jones is running a  research lab at a Lithuanian university.  

And while many of his American  colleagues initially questioned his move,  

he says some are now asking for  advice on how to do the same.

STEPHEN JONES: You can tell that people's  brains are sort of shifting now. And it's  

not just like, oh, isn't that  cute, to, what if I did that?

STEPHANIE SY: Meanwhile, other nations see an  opening to bolster their own scientific ranks.  

The European Union and France recently  pledged a half-billion euros in grants  

to entice scientists to the  continent's universities.

Since last year, the number of U.S.-based  scientists seeking employment outside of  

the country has risen by 30 percent, with many  applying to jobs in Canada, Europe, and China.

VIDYA SARAVANAPANDIAN, Postdoctoral  Scholar, UCLA: I myself came here  

from India on an immigrant visa,  an H-1B visa here, and I have been  

given so many amazing opportunities  for, which I'm really grateful for.

STEPHANIE SY: Vidya Saravanapandian is a  neuroscientist at UCLA who studies brain  

activity in children with developmental disorders.

VIDYA SARAVANAPANDIAN: We have 128 little  electrodes here, and you can see them numbered.

STEPHANIE SY: She says the consequences of an  

exodus of research talent will  be felt far beyond universities.

VIDYA SARAVANAPANDIAN: Shutting down labs  will have huge consequences. Your students  

will leave. Ideas are lost. Your experiments  are ruined. And this will have a huge impact  

on your economy. All of this is making me  really sad and scared for where this is  

going and what the future of science is for us as  scientists, as well as for the younger generation.

STEPHANIE SY: Professor Tao has been  critical of how the Trump administration  

has made funding cuts without minimizing  harm to research and the people behind it.

TERENCE TAO: To be honest, the mind-set of the  administration is rather alien to me. I mean,  

like, it's -- whatever it is, it's not coming from  the public interest being the primary objective.  

For any complex problem, including  how to develop a scientific ecosystem,  

you need a process where many, many voices  can be heard, and one person who doesn't  

understand all the facilities can't just  sort of come in and wreck everything.

STEPHANIE SY: How to protect America's scientific  

infrastructure is the latest  problem Tao is trying to solve.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm  Stephanie Sy in Los Angeles.