Zaria Parvez: How Duolingo Scaled to 8M TikTok Followers & How to Create Viral Content | E1105

I always say the reason why our Tik Tok was so successful is because this is zarya pz the creative genius behind dingo's viral Tik Tok account she started the account in September 2021

making Tik toks using Duo the company mascot now it's the biggest brand account on the platform at 8.8 million followers and over 190 million likes I

think the real Tipping Point for me was when Tik Tok mentioned that they had 1 billion users and I remember so distinctly thinking if people are on Tik Tok they're not on our app I always say

our Tik Tok is like a sitcom everything we put out there is an episode some are amazing and go super viral some are just there to build the story lines but it's something that can live and function as short form video content even if it was

to leave Tik Tok What do you think is the hardest thing about content today I feel like for me is zarya I'm so excited for this as we said beforehand I've been a fan for a

long time so first thank you so much for joining me day yeah thanks for having me excited to be here not at all this is my favorite type of show where I write a schedule and we're definitely not going to stick to it but you know we should

have it anyway um so tell me you know we see dingo's content today it's incredible you've nailed it but how did you first get into the role with dingo doing content let's start there yeah I

think it's it's not a typical story but also feels pretty typical um I was a pandemic graduate so I graduated in 2020 and I did advertising and marketing in

school so it was kind of a natural Next Step um but as for dualingo I actually wanted to be in a super small City I did not like New York I did not like asany

culture so trying to figure out like what does that mean for me um and dualingo like popped out to me mainly because a was in a small City so I thought it'd be low pressure just a good

time to enjoy just being and existing um and the mission of dingo was really near and dear to my heart um it's to make education accessible but what's even even deeper to me than that mission of

what it is is that it was an inherently diverse place like it's been founded by two immigrants like people who just you have to speak different languages here to like you know like for the app to

exist and so you're around people from different cultures different backgrounds um and just to clarify you don't actually have to speak another language to work here but like around you like you'll hear it and you'll see it and

you're a part of that and that comes with the culturals and different cultures and all that stuff together um so yeah that's what brought me here and then for content if I'm being honest

with you I started off for a whole year of just doing normal like happy Earth Day posts and things you'd expect a language learning app to do um and it wasn't until a little bit later that he started taking more risks and creating

the content we do now can I ask what took it to the next level because there is bluntly a huge amount of content which is happy Earth Day happy Sunday happy mother day whatever it is when did

you go huh I can be a little bit different here I think it was the 92 of like being in an office for the first time like I always say the reason why

our Tik Tok was so successful is because I didn't really know all that much about advertising if I'm being honest like I was a new grad I kind of had fresh eyes on it and I remember walking into the

office and this is like after the pan well after pandemic I don't know um but when the office open for the first time and things were coming back to normal and I walk into the office and there was

this big Green Owl which is the suit we all know and love today just sitting in the corner and I was like that is so freaking weird like why is it just there no one's reacting whatever and at the

time it was just meant for like people team stuff where they go to recruiting events and then the owl pops up and I was like What if I just like and I love Tik Tok on my own like I was already consuming it and I was like What if I just make like a funny piece of content

off of this and it was nothing crazy risky it was nothing like I would say to the extent of what you may see Duos Tik Tok do today but it was just different it was unexpected and no brand was doing

it yet um and I think that was kind of our Insight in it was like these small human moments that I think has made our Tik Tok kind of blow up I I I want to start kind of top down because I think a lot of people look at content that does

very well and go like how how do I recreate it how do I do the same and I think a lot starts with actually before we get to the content the platform itself you were kind of given this open perview why did you decide Tik Tok was

the platform that you wanted to spend the time on and there was the opportunity for I think there's there's two ways to think about it honestly I think one I grew up with Tik Tok like

that was what I was doing and using and like grow up as in like being in college like that's just what I was on and like during the pandemic I was just on it and this was a native platform to me so I already kind of knew how it worked and

how it functioned and what worked well and what didn't work and what made me laugh um and then I think the real Tipping Point for me was when Tik Tok

mentioned that they had 1 billion users and this was in September of 2021 and I remember so distinctly thinking that if people are on Tik Tok they're not on our

app so how do we bring people back to our app um and I'm a firm believer and I know our Co said this too that I don't think like Babble or Isetta stone or other language learning places are our

actual competitors like our real competitors are like Tik Tok and other social media platforms that are like taking the attention away from doing your daily lesson so how do we use that to our advantage how do we bring the

daily lesson or the push notification to Tik Tok and bring people back to us so I agree with you totally on the competition I just say Taylor Swift is my competition and then I feel

incredibly worried um but I I totally agree with you in terms of that perspective um I think the most important thing is like you said that you have to be a consumer of it because

you you figure out what works can I ask to what extent do you think Tik Tok is an art or a science we have a Tik Tok team specifically here and they think

it's a science and they're like oh we need this music and this font and this hit rate do you agree or is it not I think H this is such a copout answer but

I think it's a mix of both and I'm saying that because if you don't have the science and you don't know how the science of the app works your art is not going to go very far um and so when

we're hiring for our teams for example like I don't really care about your advertising experience I don't really care about like what agencies you worked out I care more about if I give you like

a concept can you find a trending audio tell me what to film bring it together and have a good caption copy and good like text on vid video that's like entertaining and I think that has been more the litest of like litness test if

you can like actually create entertaining content and it's a mixture of both like you cannot create entertaining content if you don't know the trends are because it might be a little bit too Niche for someone to understand but if you're not a creative

writer and you don't know how to make something Punchy and 5 Seconds even if you have a trending audio it's not going to do well I totally agree and I I think that's a really good answer by the way that wasn't a cop out VCS give you much

more my my question to is you mentioned trending audio there I'm constantly stuck in this question of do we copy the trends of what works this font this

music style or do we try and innovate and come up with our own creativity Concepts and push boundaries in that way how do you think about copying what works versus doing authentic and

different the best way to start is to steal like an artist and I say that because a lot of Tik Tok is like copying each other like that is the truth of it when we first started these Trends Were

Us just copying what we see and obviously giving credit words too but that is the nature of the platform that's how these like voices like voice audios go viral it's me saying it in one

in one scenario somebody else saying it in another scenario and I think this idea of stealing like an artist is okay and appreciated on Tik Tok where it's like you're this is your spin on it um and I think it's a great way to start

honestly like I feel like if you're looking for trending audio like look like click on the audio and just see what people are doing and see where you can bring your person into that um

however I think that'll only get you so far after a certain point once you've reached your virality and people kind of get the okay they understand Tik Tok and how it works they're looking for more storylines and more things that you can

bring so I always say our Tik Tok is like a sitcom everything we put out there is an episode some are amazing and go super viral some are just there to build the story lines but it's something

that can live and function as short form video content even if it was to leave Tik Tok so some of the story lines Duo and like legal Steve our general counsel are always beefing Duo loves dual Lipa

we have Lily this emo girl that hates Duo but somehow is always roped into Duo Shenanigans and it's kind of exists and people who get the lore get it and we're always trying to build lore we just did

a mascot intervent mention where we invited Scrub Daddy in the Teletubbies and we like remade like some iconic old things we did a seance with Scrub Daddy just fun Innovative things that will get

people to be like oh yeah I remember when Duo did that I like it so you the thing I like with the continuing storyline is the resonance that it builds and kind of the relationship that you feel to it the question that I have

them with it though is like for net new followers which you have so many of how do you make them feel a part of something when they're like jumping into

season two not season one I would say that we literally just drop them into the deepest part of the ocean and say swim um and I think it's because I feel

like as marketers sometimes we get in this mindset that like we have to dumb it down and make it as simple and as explainable as possible because people are not going to understand it and I

feel like we need to be more we have to have more trust in our users and our followers that they know to close the the loop and can bring things together um and I know this isn't exactly your

question but when we first started our account and we were building content a big question that we had was like okay if we're doing silly stuff that's like Duo crushing over dualipa how are people

going to know that we're an effective language learning app like they're going to think we're silly and we don't you know like we don't have any efficacy and I think for me the response was always

like we're able to be silly we're able to do this because people know we have a good app that when they go and they go to the after they see our Tik Tok and they're a converted user and they go to the platform and they're actually

learning a language they recognize that you can be the thing and also subvert the thing you can be funny on Tik Tok like you would with your friends but you could also be serious when you're learning in school or learning and

working in work um or being on the app and I think it's trusting that our consumers are much smarter than we think they are and even if we make them dive in deep like they can figure it out they'll scroll back if they want to

scroll back if it's entertaining enough people will figure it out does it matter if the video doesn't if I can watch a video on Tik Tok and I'm like I have no idea that dualingo is a language learning app does that matter because

the truth is you've built the relationship with me and I'll watch the next one because I like the first one so does every video need to tie back it doesn't and that's that's what we're learning is that like people don't come

to social to learn a language and very few people actually care about our app when they're on social media and I think like if we're lucky people will be like complaining about how they got a C minus

in Spanish and how much they hate language learning maybe they'll insult our app or they'll just confuse us with like dualipa like that is what people are talking about when it comes to

Social and language learning like they genuinely very few some must but very few people care what duelingo has to say about the new slang word like it's just not something that they're going to

social for they're going for either a break or for entertainment so we need to to grab them and meet them where they are how do you come up with the ideas you mentioned the crushing on JEA that I have to admit I would be joining that um

you mention that the the you know Steve the legal uh officer and the relationship there like how do you sit in a room with a creative team and a whiteboard what does that process look like I think the truth of it is it

started with there was only one full-time employee for social and that was me and these were genuinely just funny tropes that I thought existed in our office I think Duo is very quirky

place in general um people have confused zoo with dual Lipa for ages and that's been on our community like within Twitter um and I always say for example for that like the comment section is

your social brief like people will say stuff like lean into that like if they're telling you they want to see XYZ give them XYZ and it can be that simple

and that's where dualipa came from um Steve has it's always been a joke CU Steve was also for a very long time the only loan general counsel at du lingo and people used to just call him legal Steve and like legal Steve would' have

to check in with him and it just became a funny natural thing that a menace like Duo would not jive with a lawyer he's the most famous legal officer in the

country by now oh yeah and like he jiv with it and that's the best part and I think that speaks more even to the culture of like who doo hires it's just like these weird quirky fun people who

are willing to like do whatever to like for further the mission and like for all of us like yeah the mission to make education accessible I'm going to do that by making an owl twerk on a conference room table Steve is going to

do that by wearing a wig and pretending to get into a fight with Duo Engineers are going to do that by like making the app better like we all have our own little way and I think that intrinsic drive to actually bring new users here

because of our mission is like what fuels all the creativity and fuels the story lines and fuels the excitement around it too what does that ideation process look like now it was just you

when you saw fun in the office is it the same now it's definitely more I would say buttoned up in how you'd expect it to be we now have ahe of social um so I

report to her and we have a social coordinator and another social media manager so now there's about what that's four of us um and we're hiring like an

intern in another content creator so the team has now definitely expanded and it's honestly like a slack channel of dumping like this is trending this is my audio this is trending this is my like

sorry this is trending this is my thought this is what I think we should caption this is what I think we should do and I think the biggest thing about the ideation process for us is that it's not sitting in a room and brainstorming

it's I saw this trending audio I took the suit I filmed this what are your thoughts and it's just going for it and creating the content and it's possible the content won't see the light of day but actually having that visual thing

and kind of people working in silos so we can hit their niches in the fandoms they're part of and then come together to see how we hit those different parts of the internet is how we actually brainstorm and create I have so many

questions could you have done if had the creativity without being in the office it sparked ideas imagination would it have worked so well remotely I don't think so and I say that as someone who

is a homebody and loves being remote but like it's honestly like having even I mean if you have a suit maybe but having the suit and just the random quirkiness and the thingness like the things around

our work place is what's made it fun and like even we're like oh we need a microphone like a lot of times you be like no no no don't do a microphone like use a water bottle as a microphone for the Tik Tok and like stuff like that

where it's just like we want to use what we have and we genuinely believe in being Scrappy and like creating the content ourselves I I totally agree with you I think it's so important to see that in person K do you feel the

pressure now with new uh releases in terms of content releases because you have you seven plus million followers it's not like well 2,300 it's still a

lot but it's a lot less do you feel pressure to post I would say I don't feel pressure from our community because I feel like they kind of get it they understand what social media people go

through and just like whatever you can put out there is great I would say I do feel pressure from our marketing team in general I think we've set this high standard and like candidly like coming

in as Junior talent and this is my first job out of college like I've been able to like succeed on a lot of different parts of like going viral and doing all this content stuff and like doing this

with you like been talking here with you today but like I'm still catching up with like how to function in a workplace how to be a role manager what does it mean to work at 9 to5 and I think dealing with that is a little bit of

like where the cognitive dissonance comes in where I've started on such a high note that like I feel this pressure to always perform that way and not realizing that most people actually build up to it and it's an e and flow

experience so I would say I'm more dealing with like that internal thing of like you know what it's okay if a video doesn't go viral and it's okay if we we have to go back to the drawing board it totally is okay and we're going to get

to that kind of personal trajectory cuz trust me I have many thoughts on it having struggle with some elements myself you mentioned like elements that are trending that you're kind of taking account of and putting in you know slack

channels is that including like what's happening on Instagram or what's happening on Facebook or Tik Tok or is it just Channel by Channel like are channels transferable I guess is what

I'm asking I would say they used to not be but now for I think video content is a little bit um well actually I take that back I feel like they're all it's

so hard man cuz sometimes I feel like it is and other times I'm like it's absolutely not um but right now we're focusing a lot on Tik Tok reals and shorts and I would say that Tik Tok and

reals feel more connected and shorts just feels like a new ball game um shorts feels like stuff like YouTube shorts feels like something like my 13-year-old nephew would be posting from

the back of his middle school bathroom like it's just so confusing and I'm like I'm trying to understand gen Alpha and like what goes there but I would say like the trends are very different the content's very different there so we're

still trying to crack that nut and a lot of things that break the internet and trend on Tik Tok don't do well on shorts so do you simply rip and replace for

reals and for um Tik Tok or do you like change format style audio font is it rip and replace or is it slightly amended

yeah I would say at this rate of where we are I would say about 75 % is rip and replace and what the other 25% is us trying to actually think through like

what would work better on reals versus Tik Tok and like our way to alleviate that is we kind of broke out like who's working on which channels by like generational divides so we'll have like

a little bit of Elder Millennials doing Instagram while we're doing Tik Tok and then we're talking to like our interns to help us with shorts and it's kind of like how those age gaps and how we consume media actually dictate who's

posting on what so like I might make something that's super ticktock and super fun but when I suggest it to post on reals I've had an upper Millennial be like that's not going to hit like fix

and adjust this maybe change how this looks and we've done that and then it does really well so they're like small iterations of the same concept that's so interesting so you have so I I agree with this but you have people per

Channel not people who work across all channels yes exactly yeah I totally agree I think it's the biggest problem the biggest problem with content teams is they build no verdict knowledge in

each Channel and so they just work across all of them and they're like okay at all of them yeah exactly so it's and I mean obviously like we're still a pretty small team so we'll be stretched

across whatever we need to be stretched across but it's really helpful having almost experts in each Channel like talk to us and give feedback and same for us like I'll be an expert in Tik Tok and get feedback to my role manager who

might be making some content do you have a good read on whether a post will go viral are you like I know this one will and it does or like uh debatable but we'll see do you have a good read or is

it very spontaneous I wish I had a go viral button so bad I would say that every time I feel like I have a good read the

algorithm changes and I'm back to square one um and I feel like I my myself and in particular on our team I'm notorious for being if I get too into a project I'm convinced it's going to fail and I

like don't set back and I'm like wait it's actually funny because you get so into like the editing and the nitty-gritty and you're hearing it over and over and over in your head where you're like this just not funny anymore um so I don't have a read and I'm still

learning and playing it by ear as a lot of us are I think though I do have a general idea of when something is really going to be successful and I think that's more of like the genuiness is

like did I have fun creating this like was I laughing when I was doing this was this something that I find entertaining and if I didn't work at dualingo and if I didn't give a crap about Brands would I want to post this in my group chat and

that's kind of my litness test of like is this entertaining or good enough and I also send some pre content to my 13-year-old nephew to be like what are your thoughts on this and like his

response is always brutally honest so that's also a good helpful thing to see so having people that will actually consume the media outside of your brand to kind of review content has also been super helpful for me how important do

you think consistency is on Tik Tok how often do you post what are your thoughts around that I think there's a lot of lore that you have to like Po cuz posting and that's what's going to keep

you successful I don't believe that that it matters I believe that the quality of content is far more important than the quantity and a lot of the times I've had

to step back because I got burnt out from creating content and what I was trying to push out was just pushing out for the sake of pushing out and it wasn't good and then when I took two weeks off nobody cared everybody went on

about their lives it was okay it came back viral hits and then people were fine like there was I'm I mean like the the harsh reality is is that no one's sitting there missing dual lingo like they're not missing our app as much as

I'd love to think they're sitting there missing my Tik Tok content like they're not like it's it's 5 Seconds of their day just as we consume other brand you know branded content and taking that mindset and approach has helped me

alleviate burnout has helped me create great content and also like not take myself so seriously okay so a I think it's not you and Jingo I think it's everyone I think we all overemphasize our own importance like no one will

actually miss you other than your mother and maybe for you know exact um and even your mother's probably not watching your Tik Tok no offense so it's okay no yeah

exactly it's fine uh my question is we we also had um YouTube um shorts we had Instagram reals and we had Tik Tok do we need to be on all channels a lot of

people and Founders say to me do I need to be on everything and I say no just be on one and be great at it do you agree or do you think you do need to be everywhere now I feel like I might have

a different response to this because of our brand truth so so for us I'm very adamant about having like one or two sentences of what you know you're doing so that just becomes like the like the

nordstar for every single piece of content you put out there because it makes things just easier um so for us like the what we've established with our Tik Tok is language learning is hard so

we make it fun so that's everything is going to be judged against that human truth if is it showing that we're having fun does this seem fun and entertaining is this the messaging we want to give

across with that truth and then the other truth that we have is Duo is freaking everywhere and that is what we want it to be where duo will stop at nothing for you to do your lesson so for

us I want to be on multiple platforms because those are true to my brand however I feel like once you know your human truths and what you know what your values are and your strategy is then you can assess where you want to be and

where you want to show up but because Duo is everywhere and we want Duo to be everywhere reminding you to do your lesson that I'm GNA be on every platform as much as I can to my best ability it's a bit of a question isn't it I mean

like no I'm just like I'm thinking about it because like if you have a CFO platform for like you know B2B SAS you probably shouldn't be everywhere like no you should probably just be on one and be really good at LinkedIn But like

everyone can learn a language that was a terrible question God I loved it no I loved it thank you uh my my question to you is when you think about mistakes

that you made in the early days what do you think back on and go ah that was a big mistake that we made I think I never realized especially and I think this is a product of being at a smaller company

being in Pittsburgh a very slow kind of sleepy town is realizing when I push post it's actually going to 7.8 million

people and I think that that weight kind of gets lost in it when you're on the internet and you kind of I always say it's very easy to get lost in the sauce you're busy commenting you're busy creating viral content content you're

busy making sure that like everything makes sense and it's really easy to like slip up and like comment on the wrong thing or say the wrong thing um so I've been really focusing on I guess like

taking a step back and realizing that everything I do is has the potential to be seen by 7.8 million people and like what that looks like is a lot like it's just like a very heavy number and I

think reminding myself of that has been good to like avoid slip ups and mistakes but comment it can paralyze you though can't it cuz then you just don't do anything knowing the weight of a post

yeah I think I feel like I've always been a very like Middle Ground is just the way you got to live your life because either end is going to be too much um but like candidly like I've

commented on something that I probably shouldn't have before and I got checked and balanced for that and it was one of the biggest learning moments where like if I didn't cross the line I wouldn't have known where the line was and like

that's something I know we all experience when you're growing up and like you know and in general unfortunately mine is definitely as a social media manager more in the public eye but I think also being in an

environment that allows you to make those mistakes it allows you to test and learn has been really conducive to like recovering from those mistakes and not always feeling the weight of the world on your soldiers soldiers shoulders but

also recognizing that like yeah it is a lot of people but if you download the Jingo app you can actually learn to say shoulders yeah there we go oh yeah we

managed to Native Native ad iing okay so that's one any other mistakes we were like ah we shouldn't have done that so I could tell you a funny story and this was just me not

like realizing but we there was this trending audio at the time about um My Little Pony and it was just like a normal like it wasn't anything crazy um

but we ended up having like someone pose for it and do it and it ended up looking overtly sexual in a way that it shouldn't have and it was a very nonsexual Trend so I was like I don't get it like I don't see what you're

talking about like don't you see it and at the time I remember our CE messaging us messaging me and being like bro like come on like you can't post that take it down and I think I was like okay like I

was like it's still doing really viral and it's doing really well but we took it down because it's like his brand at the end of the day and I think like that moment was like very much a moment of

recognizing that just because I get it as Jen Z and I might get it as a trend doesn't mean that it'll always translate across people so figuring out like the lesson there for me was like how do I if

I believe in something that's risky and has the potential to go viral how do I figure out a way to convey that to people who may not look like me may not do the same things as me may not consume the same media as me but still be on

board with it um so I think looking back like yeah it was a mistake like getting a message from your CEO at 900 p.m. at

night is never a great feeling but also like figuring out the learnings from it has been really helpful of like how we keep pushing the boundaries in like productive ways you're like oh don't

worry about it bro it's fine yeah and like honestly it's funny because like the candid like truth about it is like he does DM me and there's these open conversations and he's open

to hearing push back as well um there's been times where he's told us to take down a video and I was like okay cool but what if I like change the audio fix up the text a little bit can I repost it

and he's like okay fine so I think that that I think there's that I don't know like that relationship that makes it feel like I'm not alone and there's people giving feedback and it's not like

me versus legal or me versus a CEO it's very much everyone's invested in our social doing well and everyone cares for it to do well we just have to figure out the best way to go about it can I ask how do you think about doing well and

what I mean by that is like is it merely a case of view counts likes is it a case of conversions to subscribers how do you determine the success of content and Tik

Tok today so our account I think first started off as just a brand awareness thing um candid L I didn't have the resources the time or with being remote

to actually create video content I was in my home so I was like all right how do I get dingo on Tik Tok I'm just going to start commenting so I started commenting on videos and those started gaining traction and I was like all right like people want to see something

and then we created videos now people had when they clicked on a comment they had something to go back to on our feed um and I mean short answer 1 million

views for us is like a viral video that is successful that is what is like written down as like green check great job but I feel like the real measure of

success for me was when I noticed that people were referencing duelingo Tik Tok as like a home run machine or duelingo Tik Tok as like things outside of like

people who would normally care about duelingo um something that was really awesome to hear is like from our people team like people were applying to work at duelingo and like noting like our Tik

Tok as to as the reason to be applying at to work here and I think it's moments like that where it's like sure like we got we do we have our whole process for like converting users and doing all that

fun stuff but like the true Mark of an iconic brand or like actually like making a difference is people are talking about you in their group chats they're it's like one of the main things

you hear about your brand and it's what people associate when they hear dualingo and I think for me that was like that was a success marker going on from that when we first started I didn't have any

okrs attached to it it was more of just a test and learn experiment now it's like 1 million views is considered a viral account I mean a viral video um we have a how did you hear about a survey

so now Tik Tok is part of that so if we have a viral video we'll actually see an uptick in users based off the timing of it and people saying yeah we heard about you from Tik Tok so those are ways that we actually measure success but in my

head I feel like being part of culture is far more relevant and far more impactful for me when I think about success yeah what would you say to Founders who are like I'm not sure about Tik Tok as a strategy because I just

don't know if it'll actually convert to users you might get a lot of followers you might get a lot of likes but I don't know if it'll actually convert to paying

users what would you say to them I would kindly and candidly say does your happy earthday posts convert to users and I'm

saying that because we all have or most brands have social teams that are doing things on social that why not do this like it feels like for us it's a still a

very very lowbudget execution like it's we're not asking for thousands of dollars like candidly most I would say about 95% of our impressions are

completely organic and they're for the cost of like maybe Duo's costume and like the sushi I had for dinner while like filming and like staying late a little bit and I think for me it's like

you can do things and be Scrappy and still be iconic you don't have to be spending in thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars to convert people like it's possible to do it by just hitting them where they get it and

that's also again circling back to what I said earlier like that's how you know you've hit a cord with that human truth that it is true it's not just you saying what people think about your brand it's the truth that connects it and that's

kind of like the funnel that I've seen that if if you have to create content why not make it entertaining why not make it something that people want to consume we spend

$25,000 a month on short form video it's a lot yeah it's a lot yeah it's a lot we do four do four posts a day across channels Instagram reals

YouTube shorts Tik Tok that each individually customized it's an internal team I I don't like I don't know how you feel about agencies I don't like

agencies yeah I'm but I'm the same way I just I just feel like if Innovation and all of this stuff could be bought it would have been bought by billionaires

ages ago but the truth is is like a lack of money and lack of resources is what makes the creativity shine and I'm a True Believer in this like anytime we

did well and I remember my boss being like we might get more budget for this I was like no like I don't want it like because I and I genuinely believe that lack of money is what inspires

creativity um and I think The Young and the poor have that in abundance so that's probably why you see more Innovation and stuff coming from younger people because they have a lack of

things um and for me that's what I found success in I know everyone has their own take on that but I would prefer less budget so we have I don't half a million listeners per or whatever it is now and

um uh a lot of people who listen want to do content and then go I but I don't know I don't know we're going to do an agency and this agency is Blue Tick like they are the best of the best and they

you you know 25 30 40 50 Grand a month you know the agencies they are expensive yeah what would you advise them in terms of like a weather agency whether not

agency how to make it work thoughts I would say the best content is only going to be created by people who have who are champions of your brand and who have

110% attention to what you're doing and care about what you're doing we have hired agencies I'll be honest when we first launched our Tik Tok we hired an agency to work with us um before I was

kind of in the weeds like I was just kind of like observing or whatever and the content didn't hit and it wasn't until an internal team like me took over

that it started to go more viral and I think the truth about it especially for dualingo is like these people are not Mission driven like they like they don't have that same that same drive that all

of us did for why were're working at du lingo they may be in their own mission but they're not of duolingo's mission because they're spread out across different teams across different things um and there's a certain connection that

someone who works at a brand feels to their brand just as someone who works an agency probably feels to their agency and you can't recreate that very easily that has to be from someone within an

internal um so my advice is pick up your phone download the app scroll on it for 10 minutes pick an audio and just start filming I totally agree with you and I'm

glad we're aligned to that on agencies can I ask is it challenging for you internally If we're honest like when you have great success and you get 7 million followers and then I mean this nicely

that like people want to interview you and you get a lot of followers and then your bosses and bosses are like h on a minute I'm your boss and they're not

asking to interview me is that a bit challenging so actually in the process of all of this um I started with one boss and switched to another person that was like actually like meant for social

and my first boss was I think she was a PR manager at the time and I still to this day am so grateful that she was the one that was Role managing me when this

success started because not for a second did she ever be like hi like I'm Michaela and this is the work I did it was always like no she didn't like that was all her and and I'm not just saying

that because I'm sitting in a dualingo studio right now like the fact that I'm even sitting with you the fact that I've been interviewed time and time again the fact that like I got to be on Forbes 30 under 30 for this is because they

empowered me to be like this was zarya's work this is what she did like this is her and while there are moments of course of frustration I think the

frustration more is that we're just changing how things are done and what they're used to I don't think it's a matter of like jealousy or anger or like what's going on it's more of just like

Growing Pains of now we were used to be this kind of old not old school brand but a brand that kind of did more traditional stuff and now we're whole Mantra is being social first so yeah when like a 25-year-old comes in and

changes that it's not going to be easy all the time there's going to be growing pains but our like head of marketing's Mantra also is like either you're on board or you're not and like that's up

to you if you want to be a part of that so I think it's definitely there's definitely like moments and there's tips and there's moments where I feel like I have to demand respect sometimes people may think that I just I got lucky and

some form I do think I got lucky in sber form I think I worked for that luck um where do you think you got lucky I so okay so I grew up in a Muslim

household and I've always believed that everything has been given to me based off of like the situations you've been in and the blessings you have so that's like my personal thing if you look back

at it like I grew up in a family that was wonderful and supporting I got to go to an awesome College I got to learn my craft there I got internships after that like all of these were opportunities

granted to me because of the access I had and I'm very adamant about it that like other people could achieve exactly what I did I just also happen to be in

the right place at the right time and that is all about access and opportunity and and I know that also on the scale of like I was also at a brand that allowed me to post trending audios I was also at

a brand that was okay with taking more risks than maybe a bigger brand might be so these are all things that kind of lined up for me and then where I stepped in as zarya where I'm proud of myself is I took advantage of what those things

were there and how can I use this opportunity how can I use this access to make something great so that's where I believe that that's what the access I consider as like 20% luck and the other 80% is hard work and diligence but I

think it could be replicated by anyone who's given the same opportunity and access now that's really interesting because that was going to be my question you said about replication um that I I

don't think you're right and I mean that niely I I've been trying to hire great social teams for years and weirdly there's this kind of strange thing which is like you hire amazing young people

who get Social and then the minute that you put them in a in a job they're like I'm thrilled to welcome zarya like who the writes like that like that's

not yeah and they talk like a company and so I find that not enough people are able to move from happy Earth to here's du leipa and Duo

yeah how would you advise me on turning happy Earth into Rockstar creative imaginative

person I would say you have to hire troublemakers um and I say that because I have been suspended before I have been

on the hot seat many times while in University I remember in my interview at dualingo when they asked if was there any questions you have I was like yeah if you could do a presentation for 10 minutes on anything that's not about

work no notes what would it be and why and like questions that are just like I don't know like things that are just unexpected I've been rejected from Big brands for jobs when I was applying

out of college because I my resume I can send it to you after this but it's definitely not a traditional resume it's very different it's very it's it's unhinged and my whole my whole like life

Mantra was like I want to be somewhere where I can just be zarya in all corners of my life and all that I am and I'm going to take it and leave it and like I've gotten rejected from like I remember I applied to Google rejected

Microsoft reject like it's fine like that happens because I wasn't meant to be there um and troublemakers are the ones that are causing seismic cultural shifts like I believe they're the ones that press the red button when most of

us are too scared to press it ourselves and I say this with my boss Michaela that I was talking about I remember I used to push her and I was like you just got to trust me and I'm just going to do it and if you're not okay with it we'll delete it but I'm going to do it and I

remember being like I don't know and I was like send and like it's like moments like that where you need people who are willing to keep pushing the boundaries and I get in trouble and it happens and I get messages from CEOs and I get into

little thorny situations at work it happens but also great work comes from it so I think it's it's what you choose to do with that are troublemakers obvious and what I mean by that is we all know job interviews you come and you

say you love Shakespeare and that you play tennis on the weekend and you hide the fact that you you know maybe drink tequila and dance to Taylor Swift um you know which would be great if people

actually said but like are they obvious when you interview and meet them I would say you can I feel like I can tell because I would say our team is a team of troublemakers and I think it's because I grew up with that and I feel

like it's more of people who don't have traditional backgrounds and also people who are very upfront and I like I stand people who are like I am who I am and I

don't give a if you like it or not and that is the energy I want when I and I and I know it sounds unaccommodated ating and stubborn and I've been that

way but also to a certain extent you need that energy to push things forward and I would also say troublemakers if you're looking for an easy pool to start of people who are pressing these red buttons who are

testing boundaries is people with intersectional backgrounds and I'm very adamant about this because I grew up right in a Pakistani household in a very white city in America and my entire life

was figuring out how to balance both these cultures both these groups figure out how to please both and because of that I'd find myself kind of push against up the wall sometimes but I also know how to manage that pressure and I'm

always saying that people from intersectional backgrounds like they go through the most so they know how to handle the most no I I I totally get you that can I ask is it frictitious

internally ever when you're pushing red buttons and doing posts do you ever get other functions being like you can't do that we had we had this campaign lined up for next week we had this lined up we

didn't plan on releasing that does it cause tension between functions yeah it does um candidly and I think but I think that's natural and I think tension is required for growth so

I think the way that I approach it is like more of all right I know this caused you T like tension let's talk about it like let me know about it like I remember for example when threads was

a thing for like a 0 2 seconds we posted a photo of like big bird I don't even remember what we said as the comment but it was like Duo big bird or whatever and at the time we had a kids app um and

someone from the team was like yo like it's a kids app you can't post like I think it was something like us like swooning over big bird but they're like you can't post that like they're from blah blah blah um and I get these

messages all the time we have like I remember we've thought we've talked about making like a social media like thing where people can anonymously say their issues with what we're doing um but I think that's okay I think those

moments of discussion and tension are important for people to understand social for understand what does well and you have to have thick skin I know I've grown with thick skin but it's

important and I'm okay with it couple of things that do you take down posts that don't do well sometimes people say oh it looks bad if you have the historical View and there's like some that are real Duds do you takeen down I think it

depends like we have before I think it's if it's been like really freaking bad then yeah but also I don't I think it's more of like a judgment on that but not not usually we kind of just keep it up did you ever go through a trough of

disillusion I remember with us we had like a period of a month or two where like none of our videos hit none and it was hard did you ever have that I feel like I'm going through that right now so

I appreciate you saying that um yeah I it happens and I feel like the biggest thing is to not take it personally I think sometimes I think my ultra ego is literally a green bird and taking a step

backward to be like no you are zarya this is your 9 to5 and it is okay if everything is not a smashing hit I think that's been a very helpful way to kind of Disconnect from it to what extent do

you find that real time is the most important and what I find by that mean by that is like if it's news it's got a much higher chance of hitting than like inspirational quote or wise piece of

wisdom news is what hits I find yeah do you find that um or if it's tied to on what like a joke on Ryan rynolds being in a football

game or a joke on leaper at a concert and it's like it happened last week and now there's the video and here we go do you see what I mean yeah that definitely I think yeah cultural moments has had

way more impact than like regular scheduled programming and we really try to adjust for that too like we have this saying with our social team that we have our calendar is of like what we want to

post what we're thinking of but everyone has a veto card if they're like this is super relevant and needs to get out today I'm pulling my veto card and those are things that we have in our team to

make sure we're pushing out content that feels culturally relevant and feels like Duos on top of the game that's so interesting I think we're at structuring our content planning how do you stretch your content planning it's

very Loosey Goosey I think so the way we go about it is we know that social is very much dependent on Trends so we never really plan more than like two weeks out and even two weeks is like a

bit of a stretch um and pretty much every Monday I go through the week and see like how many pieces of content we're thinking of doing and just Monday through Friday we'll assign people like all right Lily you're going to be doing

two trending videos this week figure it out Mel you have this one campaign scheduled is it okay if it goes live on Wednesday XYZ and then say in the middle of the week all of a sudden Taylor Swift

and Travis Kelce are trending okay Mel sorry we're not posting that we're posting about this tweet about this and I think the mindset is no one is too precious about what content they're creating everyone is just down to do

whatever and do whatever will go viral so people are fine with pushing their stuff back or having to jump in and think of creative copy or just kind of work together to make viral moments happen what do you think is the hardest

thing about content today the hardest thing like for me it's balancing that we can just copy what works and get

pretty good hits yeah or actually we can try and be different try and be creative and maybe flop badly I think the hardest thing is as creatives we're very personally attached

to what we put out in the world and it's very hard to take critique it's very hard to like look back at ourselves and I think something that I'm going through right now is like like a lot of people

are like dingo's always been successful and like du lingo this and that which is so true and it's so great but right now we're kind of in a rough patch like with our content like we're trying to figure out how to like go on YouTube shorts how

to make things viral and being able to kind of remove the personal and take the critical feedback and figure out ways to be Innovative is the most tough thing for me like it feels feels like it's always like a goose chase where when you

think you got it right you have to start from score zero again and I think it's a very humbling feeling I think it keeps us Nimble and I think it also Keeps Us empathetic to like being adjustable and adaptable which I think is the most

important skill any human being can have um but yeah I think it's that personal attachment and being able to just like pivot is probably the hardest thing I

think also like knowing who you are does that make sense like it's so easy to just copy your we both know them the ton of influences and we can all make hits like

them I'm not being rude it's kind of easy to do um but that's not what Jing is about yeah and I think that goes back to the North Star like language learning

is hard so we make it fun and every piece of content will have some mention of that and like I know a lot of people be like well I didn't see language learning and this dual Lea thirst trap um and the way that we kind of approach

that is the strategy that I love to call Candy to the medicine where essentially the candy is going to be the doal leapa thirst trap but the medicine you might find it in the comment section you might

find it in the caption of us being like doing mentioning something about our app mentioning something about language learning in fun and innovative ways so like for example the duala thirst trap I remember one of our comments being like

the only stuff you'll find on dualingo Plus or like super dualingo and that is like all right like we just kind of plugged our Premium app and now people are into it and it's that's the medicine to the candy and I feel like that's a

really important way of approaching content today no I I totally get you final one you said before about hey just download the app 10 seconds use it

engage I agree for Founders CEOs who think and want to engage with Tik Tok do they need someone dedicated to it as a Channel or can it be Sarah who loves Tik

Tok and is just passionate about it it should be Sarah who loves Tik Tok and is passionate about it even if she's not in marketing or she's in a different space

yep 100% I actually my dream is to hire a stand-up comedian for my team like candidly I think people who are removed from marketing who are removed from

content creation who just exist and love the content for what it is are probably going to help your brand go further than those with specific marketing training and I believe the marketing training can

be taught but that that natural ideation machine that connects with video content sometimes just comes from someone who doesn't even know what marketing is who are your favorite accounts okay on

Twitter I love the New Jersey state department and I think they have really funny tweets um on Tik Tok I mean I love

Scrub Daddy I'm a big Scrub Daddy Stand but we also do like a lot of content with them so I just like that's why we've done content with them just because I love what they do um and then in general like just fun content that

not necessarily is on Tik Tok but is more long form is liquid death I just I love liquid death they've done such a good job I have to say as well and totally agree with you there I

also love the what I eat in a days you know those one I I canot get enough of what I know like what I know you're like no you don't wow

exactly I I send it to my mother like wow that and recipes I love watching I never cook but I just watch

people listen we're all in the same boat I I love streamers I think it's funny watching people play G I just think it's so funny to me and I don't know why but like stuff like I don't game I don't do any of it but just the concept that

somebody could be engaged with me playing a game like that to me is just wild but what's your favorite brand like mine is Chanel Timeless elegant crosses

geographies incredible what's your favorite brand you know if I'm being so honest with you I don't really care

about Brands like in that sense of like like I admire a brand like that I love G because I love their clothes like I love I love Costco because I love shopping

there but it's more of like stuff like that I don't think and as a marketing person I feel like I know I should have a perspective on that but I think for me it's like I just love people who make great work and I think not one brand has

nailed that every time and time again I think we all kind of bring our own pieces of that forward so I don't think I have like a nordstar brand no listen I think that's a perfect example um Costco

is one that I was not expecting it's much cheaper than Chinelo so like Well Done um I want to move into a quick F so I say a short statement you give me your immediate thoughts does that sound okay

yeah let's do it so tell me which company social in terms of like B2B or like startup company do you most respect on social could be across

anything be like they've done a good job um um Scrub Daddy Fair uh is it harder or easier now to

win at Social and content harder why is it harder because the tools are there but it's harder to be found I think yeah I think it's just everyone's jumped on

the bandwagon now so standing out is getting tougher and tougher yeah what worries you most today about social and content candidly I worry about Tik Tok

being banned um and content-wise I think I worry that I'll not be able to come up with more like law like content that lives beyond a trend if that makes

sense does it need to I think at times I feel it does I feel that's what will distinguish you between a trend when Tik Tok becomes irrelevant of how can you translate it across and so storylines I

think stress me out of like what is actually hitting the cord with people that's a story line that they can resonate with and understand do you do you measure cross promotion so a million views on a Tik Tok did you measure the

impact that has on Instagram following or YouTube or not so much in terms of that cross promotion um we haven't seen direct correlation if I'm being honest I would say more of like a 1 million view

thing on Tik Tok might would actually have more correlation with like app downloads um but it kind of stays within its own little realm we used to see people on Twitter they would repost Tik

toks that we'd have and then we'd see some more followers on Twitter but Twitter's kind of gone to so since then things have just been are you seeing LinkedIn just like spike

in terms of Engagement I mean okay LinkedIn I actually stay on LinkedIn I love LinkedIn um but I use it more for like my personal stuff than I would actually for dualingo I I actually don't

control dualingo LinkedIn um our our amazing editorial team does that but I also yeah hot take jenzy is uh showing up more on LinkedIn so unbelievable no

engagement is through the roof uh final one for you where do you want to be in it's such a like job in for question but like Troublemaker hat on why would you

like to be in 10 years time I would like to be working a 9 to5

and like stagnant and I'm saying that because I feel like there's this pressure for us to constantly grow and to dream to be a CMO and to dream to

keep going bigger and bigger but I want to be at a place where I'm happy where I have a good work life balance and my work is not my life no I love that that is uh okay I

was like I don't know if that's a hot take but I just like I personally have no Ambitions of being a CMO or like going higher I'm content and happy with

where I am do you know feel the need to like the next thing like I I don't understand that like when you're on the treadmill you're on the treadmill no no

I I mean I feel like I I feel like my life like my value of where I enjoy and love doing things does not come from work and being on the

treadmill of life feels more of doing stuff for my personal benefit and personal gain and like things that enlighten me and like I'm happy like I'm okay with where I'm at and I I feel like

maybe in five years that'll change maybe I'll want to grow more but like I'm okay just existing and being and that is my Mantra right now so I I don't have any crazy Ambitions for the 10 years maybe

maybe I'll be retired that's my dream my dream is to be retired uh listen I've loved doing this thank the best answer that I've ever had and the most honest to where would you like to be in 10

years uh normally it's very different but this has been amazing thank you so much yeah thanks for having me